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Old 07-26-2014, 10:23 AM   #31
Amleen
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@gus

have you found any color spectrum for the Vero 18 5600K?
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Old 07-26-2014, 06:35 PM   #32
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Bridgelux has not posted posted any spectrum data for the 5600K Vero in 90CRI bin. Per them via an email the main difference with this bin is that it pushes more cyan/green than the 70CRI bin of their cool whites.
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:27 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
Bridgelux has not posted posted any spectrum data for the 5600K Vero in 90CRI bin. Per them via an email the main difference with this bin is that it pushes more cyan/green than the 70CRI bin of their cool whites.
HA!... (just joking)...............
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Old 07-27-2014, 09:24 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
HA!... (just joking)...............
Which makes it an even better array
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Old 07-27-2014, 12:55 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
Which makes it an even better array
Which proves that improving CRI doesn't automatically imply "adding red"...

And yes it does make it "better".. but you still can't do sunsets... Though w/ a set of these and a strip of the red of your choice and a few violets if you choose.. THEN you should be all set..

Hmm.. maybe a few extra Cyan for some "pop".. Back to step one..

specs @ 85C
BXRC-56G4000-F-04
5600K
90CRI
1050(nom mA)
3040(lumens)
27.9V(f)
29.3(W)
109lm/W
http://www.bridgelux.com/wp-content/...2014.05.23.pdf

to compare it w/ single diodes:
There are 9 so each is @ 3.1V(f) @ 3.25W @337.77lm each (3040/9)..

Quote:
Luminous Intensity - 351 Lumens minimum at 1000ma
This is the Luxeon ES series! The finest Cool White LED on the market - Even superior to Cree LEDS (XM-L). XM-L consumes 2.90V at 700ma, Luxeons only consume 2.50!!
- Forward Voltage is 2.50V @ 700ma
- Max current - 1000ma
in other words, besides overdriving (which can be your cup of tea) and a small form factor (design issue) the Vero is no different than it's equiv single emitters.. @ 3/ each that is $27/"panel"

Last edited by jeffkrol; 07-27-2014 at 02:59 PM.. Reason: specs
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Old 07-27-2014, 06:42 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Which proves that improving CRI doesn't automatically imply "adding red"...

And yes it does make it "better".. but you still can't do sunsets... Though w/ a set of these and a strip of the red of your choice and a few violets if you choose.. THEN you should be all set..

Hmm.. maybe a few extra Cyan for some "pop".. Back to step one..

specs @ 85C
BXRC-56G4000-F-04
5600K
90CRI
1050(nom mA)
3040(lumens)
27.9V(f)
29.3(W)
109lm/W
http://www.bridgelux.com/wp-content/...2014.05.23.pdf

to compare it w/ single diodes:
There are 9 so each is @ 3.1V(f) @ 3.25W @337.77lm each (3040/9)..



in other words, besides overdriving (which can be your cup of tea) and a small form factor (design issue) the Vero is no different than it's equiv single emitters.. @ 3/ each that is $27/"panel"
Cept the Vero 18 can do 2A all day long and you can burst 3A (tested by weed forums) so it takes quite a bit more 3W emitters to match it's real output. On an output per cost basis 3W emitters can't touch chip-on-board designs.

Having a tank look like Mars is not sunset. My 2700K by itself produces a very nice reddish/yellow tint that looks like a normal SoCal sunset.

No need for violet, red, or cyan when Luxeon CoB puts out good output in all those regions with a single chip.
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:01 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
Cept the Vero 18 can do 2A all day long and you can burst 3A (tested by weed forums) so it takes quite a bit more 3W emitters to match it's real output.
not without "helicopters" ..
We shall see how long they last @2-3A.. when a fan fails or improper design.. not to mention finding or the cost of said drivers.
Last I saw @3A they get quite toasty.. I believe the "flashlight people" ran them up to 4A
http://www.bridgelux.com/wp-content/...ED-Modules.pdf

you'll spend more money on thermal management than on the LED's themselves..

I don't plan on getting a physics degree to avoid toasting a few LED's..

As to sunset, sunrise.. Since I'm east of all the burning brush and forests (thank you west coats and mountain states) .. our sunsets can be quite "mars like"..

I have all sorts of colors..



2 months later.. They must like it on Mars..




and I even have Martian plants..


Last edited by jeffkrol; 07-28-2014 at 03:51 AM.. Reason: mars
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:50 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
not without "helicopters" ..
We shall see how long they last @2-3A.. when a fan fails or improper design.. not to mention finding or the cost of said drivers.
Last I saw @3A they get quite toasty.. I believe the "flashlight people" ran them up to 4A
http://www.bridgelux.com/wp-content/...ED-Modules.pdf

you'll spend more money on thermal management than on the LED's themselves..

I don't plan on getting a physics degree to avoid toasting a few LED's..

As to sunset, sunrise.. Since I'm east of all the burning brush and forests (thank you west coats and mountain states) .. our sunsets can be quite "mars like"..
I have 18dBA fans. My living room ceiling fan is louder than my fixture. I can run my setup at my full max power which is ~320W and while the heatsink gets hot I can leave my hand on it no problem. At my normal power the heatsink doesn't even get warm.

There is a guy on the weed forums that is running a dual 18 Decor with a 29 setup. He is pushing the 29 @3A and the 18's @ 2.5A. He has a pretty big heatsink and one small fan and while his heatsink gets hot it doesn't get hot enough to burn him. He spoke with Bridgelux about the max current Vero's can go and they told him they advertise 2A max because of legal reasons but they can go quite higher.

These new CoB designs are meant to replace metal halide not T5HO. You want to replace T5HO go with 3W LEDs and add a multitude of colors. You want to replace MH at ~1/3 of the wattage, go with CoB. A Vero 18 @ ~1.5A and a 15mm Luxeon CoB Crisp @1A is over 8000 lumens which puts you in 150W MH territory. Add a reflector and now you are in 250W MH territory.
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Old 07-28-2014, 03:53 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
These new CoB designs are meant to replace metal halide not T5HO. You want to replace T5HO go with 3W LEDs and add a multitude of colors. You want to replace MH at ~1/3 of the wattage, go with CoB. A Vero 18 @ ~1.5A and a 15mm Luxeon CoB Crisp @1A is over 8000 lumens which puts you in 150W MH territory. Add a reflector and now you are in 250W MH territory.
Good to know when I want to replace my street lights.. .. err.. they have a place and are another tool in the lighting arsenal..
I'm fairly new to this but I have yet to find any MH used in planted freshwater tanks.. I'm sure there are plenty.. Just doesn't seem as common..

Oh did I mention I hate noisy ceiling fans.. Plenty of those out there..

ON a strictly personal note.. If they sold Vero chips in a light bulb style w/ a FAN. it would be the LAST bulb I'd ever choose.. One more "failure point" (and much higher than any passive components (except capacitors of course)as far as I'm concerned............but that is just me..

Last edited by jeffkrol; 07-28-2014 at 04:12 AM.. Reason: me
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Old 07-28-2014, 11:37 PM   #40
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All Amano uses is MH.



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Old 07-29-2014, 03:39 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
All Amano uses is MH.


Cavemen used stone tools, got the job done.. what is your point..
wouldn't be because he wants his royalty check huh..naaaahhhh...
http://www.thegreenmachineonline.com...a-lamp-mh-150w

funny:
Quote:
The ADA light fixture that uses both CFL and MH bulbs is the Grand Solar I. It is the flagship ADA light fixture, and Amano strongly recommends this choice because it most closely simulates the dawn-to-dusk photoperiods in nature. The CFL and MH bulbs in ADA Grand Solar I are designed to be turned on independently. This will allow you to mimic a dawn-to-dusk effect by turning on the MH bulb for only three hours of the entire eight-hour photoperiod provided by the CFL.
http://www.miyabi-aqua.com/nature-aq...sics/lighting/

Quote:
Both CFL and MH bulbs should be replaced after one year’s use (at eight hours a day or 3000 total operating hours) even if the bulbs are still working. This is because the bulbs’ intensity deteriorates and they lose the lighting concentration required for plant growth.
On a personal note.. i' not too crazy about those baby blue backgrounds..
http://www.barrreport.com/showthread...24-Amano-light

Quote:
The development of AQUASKY was but a whisper for years - a rumor in aquatics. But behind the scenes, Mr. Amano was finely crafting his new light.

“It had to be an LED, because this new technology allows a much greater conservation of energy and much longer life span of the bulb (we parsed the AQUASKY at 30,000 hours). Plus, the small, compact design allowed for us to use less material than the previous Solar Mini, which means that it makes less impact on the environment when being produced, shipped across the world and we do not have to manufacture replacement bulbs, which add to the environmental impact.”

There are many other LED lights on the market, but how did they effect plants? Mr. Amano had been on a mission to not only produce an LED light with the ADA trademark classic design but also to make one which grows aquatic plants effectively.

“Many LED lights on the market are not for aquatic plants - their lighting is either decorative or for marine aquaria. Unsatisfied with what was available in the market for growing aquatic plants effectively, the AQUASKY had to be the best light yet made to grow plants. The AQUASKY is so effective, with such a precise color temperature (optimized for 7,000-8,000K replicating noon sun) suitable for aquatic plants, that it replaces all of the SOLAR MINI in the Nature Aquarium Gallery in Niigata, Japan. It truly is the first groundbreaking LED light for aquatic plants.”
http://www.houstonfishbox.com/vforum...rium-led-light

Last edited by jeffkrol; 07-29-2014 at 04:38 AM.. Reason: fun
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:19 AM   #42
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Hey guys, I'm still here! I've been busy these days, had only time for reading..

Thanks for your nice debate I had fun with it, and I also had different points of view, that's always important and useful!

Anyway, gus I'm still thinking to go for some XM-Ls, since I'm aiming at something highly adjustable/customizable and I can have it by mixing/dimming different colors

Also I didn't find many informations about the Vero, seems they're not used a lot yet.. But I'm thinking to use one of them instead of a chinese power led in my next project! So thank you for your informations, and for letting me know about this product!

So.. I got the big heatsink a couple of days ago, and the Typhoon controller is on its way!



What do you think about this disposition? Should be like this:

12 Cool White on 2 LDD-1500 drivers;
8 Neutral White on 1 LDD-1500 driver;
6 Warm White on 1 LDD-1500 driver;
6 Philips Luxeon Rebel Cyan on 1 LDD-700 driver;
4 Philips Luxeon Rebel Deep Red on 1 LDD-700 driver (probably dimmed down at 50-60%)

I could put 80 optics on the 2 external rows, so I can keep the fixture a bit higher than I thought..

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Old 08-02-2014, 12:46 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by Amleen View Post
Hey guys, I'm still here! I've been busy these days, had only time for reading..

Thanks for your nice debate I had fun with it, and I also had different points of view, that's always important and useful!

Anyway, gus I'm still thinking to go for some XM-Ls, since I'm aiming at something highly adjustable/customizable and I can have it by mixing/dimming different colors

Also I didn't find many informations about the Vero, seems they're not used a lot yet.. But I'm thinking to use one of them instead of a chinese power led in my next project! So thank you for your informations, and for letting me know about this product!

So.. I got the big heatsink a couple of days ago, and the Typhoon controller is on its way!



What do you think about this disposition? Should be like this:

12 Cool White on 2 LDD-1500 drivers;
8 Neutral White on 1 LDD-1500 driver;
6 Warm White on 1 LDD-1500 driver;
6 Philips Luxeon Rebel Cyan on 1 LDD-700 driver;
4 Philips Luxeon Rebel Deep Red on 1 LDD-700 driver (probably dimmed down at 50-60%)

I could put 80 optics on the 2 external rows, so I can keep the fixture a bit higher than I thought..

Looks good but you have 5 channels there and Typhon is max 4 channels. You will have to combine a channel. I would say combine the neutral and warm white into one channel. Or you could ditch the neutral whites and add 4 more cool, 4 more warm, and get 4 lime Luxeon Rebel to give the green plants more pop.
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Old 08-02-2014, 06:17 AM   #44
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Second suggestion:
Just use cheap Chinese Warm whites and add them to the 660nm red channel. Conversely you can keep and under drive the ww @700mA..

You have plenty of primary light.. so a loss here is not much of a problem..
mostly depends if you ever want a "red" tank.. or not.. The WW and red blends to a nice orange..

NOTE: just red..digital color will not be correct


Soryy have to check your PS and voltage to make sure this is possible..
Reds usually are low 2V though.. (9.2V /4 plus roughly 20.4V for the 6 ww= 29.6V xm-l will be 2.8V each @ 700mA so really more like 26V total)

Last edited by jeffkrol; 08-02-2014 at 06:29 AM.. Reason: math
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Old 08-02-2014, 02:14 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by gus6464 View Post
Looks good but you have 5 channels there and Typhon is max 4 channels. You will have to combine a channel.
That's why asked about it some posts back! Actually I was thinking to dim the two CW drivers on a single Typhon channel, just to use separate channels for different colors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Second suggestion:
Just use cheap Chinese Warm whites and add them to the 660nm red channel. Conversely you can keep and under drive the ww @700mA.
The store where I'm going to buy just has Cree for white leds, and Cree/Philips for colored ones.. But it's not a problem, for now I'm ok with the budget.. The important thing is to not buy from many different stores! Why would you underdrive the WW at 700mA?

What do you mean by "wanting a red tank"? Full of red plants, or red-looking because of the warm light? My objective, is to have the first, without too much of the second.

The PS will probably be this one http://www.meanwell.com/search/NES-350/NES-350-spec.pdf, the 36V version should be good both for LDD-H and LDD-L drivers. The max driver output is ~30V wit an input of 36V.

I prefer to use higher values than is needed, just to be sure I won't burn anything:

CWx6 on each driver @ 1500mA = 3.2V*6 = 19.2V
NWx8 @ 1500mA = 3.2V*8 = 25.6V
WWx6 @1500mA = 3.2V*6 = 19.2V
Luxeon Cyan x6 @700mA = 3.2V*6 = 19.2V
Luxeon DeepRed x4 @700mA = 2.4V*4 = 9.6V

About the Lime leds, I don't know.. I already have Cyan, do I need them? Maybe I can add them in a second moment, if I see that greens are not great..

Thanks again!
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