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Old 07-18-2014, 01:00 AM   #1
Amleen
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Help with DIY LED fixture


Hi everybody! My name is Alessio and I'm from Italy.

I read a lot about this, but I still need your help because I really want to make my own LED fixture, so I'll appreciate every help you can give me.

Let's begin!

I have a new tank, it's about 43x19x19 inches (110x50x50 cm) and I want to set it up as an hi-tech tank, that allows me to keep every kind of plant I want; that's what I'm thinking about:

a big finned heatsink, 30"x12" (90x30 cm), 1.6" thick (4 cm), with some Cree XM-L leds (I can change the measures of the heatsink if you think it's better, that's just what I was planning), I would like it to be passive cooled..

LED distribution:




The led spacing would be 4" and each of the 3 row is 4" from another too; yellow dots are Warm White leds, and white dots are Cool White.

Each row would be driven at 1750mA separately, no dimming for now, maybe in the future.. I was considering not to use optics/lenses since they're considerably hard for me to find, so I should keep the leds really close to the water surface (4-5"), so about 20" from the substrate.

What do you think? Too much light? Too low? Impossible to do it without lenses?

Sorry for my english and for the bad scheme..


REALLY THANKS IN ADVANCE!!

Alessio
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Old 07-18-2014, 03:06 AM   #2
gus6464
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You are definitely in enough light to do anything you want territory if all those are XM-L. I am pretty sure you going to have to put it higher than your original plan. I would definitely look into adding dimming now though.
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:20 AM   #3
Amleen
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Hi, thanks for your answer!

I was planning on keeping it so close to the surface, because I thought that with no optics there would be a lot of light waste by keeping it higher.

What you think about that?
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Old 07-18-2014, 02:10 PM   #4
jeffkrol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amleen View Post
Hi everybody! My name is Alessio and I'm from Italy.

I read a lot about this, but I still need your help because I really want to make my own LED fixture, so I'll appreciate every help you can give me.

Let's begin!

I have a new tank, it's about 43x19x19 inches (110x50x50 cm) and I want to set it up as an hi-tech tank, that allows me to keep every kind of plant I want; that's what I'm thinking about:

a big finned heatsink, 30"x12" (90x30 cm), 1.6" thick (4 cm), with some Cree XM-L leds (I can change the measures of the heatsink if you think it's better, that's just what I was planning), I would like it to be passive cooled..

LED distribution:

The led spacing would be 4" and each of the 3 row is 4" from another too; yellow dots are Warm White leds, and white dots are Cool White.

Each row would be driven at 1750mA separately, no dimming for now, maybe in the future.. I was considering not to use optics/lenses since they're considerably hard for me to find, so I should keep the leds really close to the water surface (4-5"), so about 20" from the substrate.

What do you think? Too much light? Too low? Impossible to do it without lenses?

Sorry for my english and for the bad scheme..


REALLY THANKS IN ADVANCE!!

Alessio
a couple of things.. 1750mA driver????

also if it was me, I'd stick one type of white per channel..
you can "control" the color temp..
Use LDD PWM dimming drivers and buy a $50 Typhon from StevesLEDs..

The 10 WW are not a problem.. 17 whites are a bit of an issue..

Using a 48V seperate power supply and Ldd's @ $7 each, I'd look at splitting into at least 3 channels..Adding a channel costs about $7 US (one driver)

Use 1000mA driver.. Better W/lm ratio...and easier to cool..

Assume 3.4V per LED (really more like 3.0 @1000mA) in series and 3V "loss" w/ a Meanwell LDD..
48V PS usually can be "tweaked" to about 51V..
Limit yourself to 13LED's/per channel..IF using 3 you can squeeze in 15/channel (1000mA drive current)


I assume you have some driver in mind.. which is it?

Oh as to dimming.. Best to "plan ahead".. since driver swapping is poor economics..

no optics, low to tank is fine, scheme fine,
Slight mod for channel balance but it would be dependent if you plan to dim.. The overall tone may be a bit "warm" (straight on full) but that is user preference .. or not.
12WW:14 cool white



Using 6500K and 3500K LEDs

Last edited by jeffkrol; 07-18-2014 at 03:17 PM.. Reason: image
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Old 07-18-2014, 06:28 PM   #5
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Why buy XM-L if you are not going to run it at close to 2A. Makes total sense on why he is getting 1750ma drivers. Plus he is in Italy so stuff like LDD might not be available there.
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:39 PM   #6
Amleen
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Thanks for your help jeffkrol, I really appreciate it! But gus6464 hits the point: at least from what I read, here on plantedtank and generally around the internet, is not worth to run XM-L at "low" current.. Probably even at 1A they're still better than other leds, but running them at 1A means that I'll have almost half light than I was planning..

But you're surely right when you say that I should drive different whites on separate drivers and not mix them in the same series!


gus6464, even if I'm from Italy, I'll not buy anything here, since I can't find anything. I'll buy from a shop overseas. (don't know if I can put a link)


Anyway, these are the drivers I was planning to take: LPC-60-1750 http://www.meanwell.com/search/lpc-60/LPC-60-spec.pdf

I really would be able to have a dimming system, I love the controllers like Typhon from SteveLEDs, but I don't find the correct drivers to do it, not only to regulate the current to the leds but mostly to have a sunrise/sunset system.

From the shop I'm going to buy, I find just an LDD-700HW.

I could also change to a 1400mA version of the driver, or mix them and run (for example) CW at 1400mA and WW at 1750mA, i don't know what to do Still no dimming though.

Last edited by Amleen; 07-18-2014 at 08:49 PM.. Reason: new info
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:14 PM   #7
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Well another option is to go with meanwell LDD-1500L. They are 36V but can do up to 1500ma. So 3 of these can power all your LEDs. Put all the warm whites on one driver and then put the cool whites on the other two drivers.

http://www.meanwell.com/search/LDD-L/LDD-L-spec.pdf

http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...bIrPC2rA%3d%3d
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:38 PM   #8
Amleen
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That's really nice, thanks.

Just to know, this is not dimmable to 0, right? And for example, with a Typhon controller, I should use the PWM 0-5V, is that correct?
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:44 PM   #9
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LDD are dimmable to 0. They are only PWM compatible as well and you should use the pwm output of the Typhon.
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Old 07-18-2014, 09:55 PM   #10
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1000mA @360 lf 1500mA @511 lf
30% more..
w/ probably 2x the heat...
THAT might be 2x... ;0

it's a philosophy.. Certainly wouldn't recommend under 1000mA..

it's like talking about the "wasted lumens" if you drive it under 3A or 2 for that matter..

to be honest I didn't realize how robust these are.. but designing at 1000mA makes other design parameters a bit easier..

The cost difference would be like $30 "under driving" the CREE's.. and making it up in volume..

If I was designing this I'd find more efficient LED's..
(well they are pretty good..)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...=0&output=html
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2376772

Now are they L's or L2's???

l's
360lm 1000mA 2.97v 3w 120lm/w
511lm 1500mA 3.09v 4.6w 111lm/w

Probably wouldn't need any fans either..

Last edited by jeffkrol; 07-18-2014 at 10:26 PM.. Reason: spreadsheet
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Old 07-18-2014, 10:30 PM   #11
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I'm sorry.. Buy and do as you like (which I always assumed anyways) My only suggestion is by throwing dimming out.. you defeat the main "strength" of LED's and might as well just get some T5's..

Why wait for a "later date".. it isn't even that more in cost.. w/ a redesign. Speaking from a point of having a box of drivers gathering dust. that cost a lot more than I care to think about..

Anyone doing DIY. it should be a priority, not an afterthought.. PERSONAL opinion..

Bump: And gus.. I didn't EVEN mention cyan or 660nm red..
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:11 PM   #12
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And I didn't even mention Vero. Although mixing a small cluster of 6500K XM-L with a Vero wouldn't be a bad idea.
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Old 07-19-2014, 12:24 AM   #13
Amleen
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The real problem for me, is to find availability of so many products. Only for the LDD drivers, it would cost me more for the shipping than for the drivers!

I really want it to be dimmable, but what I have to do is to find a store that has almost everything I need. I can't make 3-4 international shipments.. It would cost more than the fixture itself hehe
If you know a store that has almost everything, just PM me! (the only thing that i've found on a local store, is the heatsink)


@jeffkrol: seriously speaking, do you think that adding cyan-660nm leds would be necessary/useful?
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Old 07-19-2014, 05:52 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amleen View Post
@jeffkrol: seriously speaking, do you think that adding cyan-660nm leds would be necessary/useful?
"In my opinion.. white LEd's are deficient in the blue green spectrum.. Cyans help smooth the curve..





Whites, for the most part (newer high CRI ones are better) are deficient in the lower reds..
though the "effect" is arguable.. 660nm is the primary chlorophyll absorption band..and it adds for great "sunsets" when put on a separate channel to be blended w/ warm whites..

An example of just 6500k and 660nm red LED's
http://forum.buildmyled.com/index.ph...-spectrum.225/
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Old 07-20-2014, 01:47 AM   #15
Amleen
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Thanks jeffkrol!

Can't find cyan leds, i'll search more.. The 660nm leds were already on the initial project, but I was so undecided on that..

Just a question on Typhon controller: can I dim two drivers with a single channel?
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