Need Help. Can't get on the right path for some reason.
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Algae


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-28-2014, 05:50 PM   #1
dtrea2662
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 45
Default

Need Help. Can't get on the right path for some reason.


So here is the dilemma. I have had a 56 and a 55 for quite some time now fighting algae and everything else under the sun. About two months ago i changed my co2 injection to reactors and changed the lighting on the 56 to a BML Dutch XB. Parameters are as follows

co2-30ppm
NO3-20-30ppm
PO4-2-3ppm
TDS 250
Light is on 8 Hours
55g light is a 4 bulb t-8 6700 but only running 2 bulbs
I have to turn on co2 3 hours before to get to a ph of 6.6 in 56 and 6.7 in 55 which equates to 30 ppm with kh table
I have 2 240 hydor circ pumps in each and fluval 406 canisters in each with the inline 3"*20" reactor going to a spray bar.

I dose EI however PO4 stays elevated so i dose KSO4 instead to keep the K and not add PO4.
I did a huge rescape when i switched pumps, reactors, lights, and fert regime.

Since then I have had fuzzy green algae and cyno in my 55 long taking over on my java moss, hairgrass, and other plants. and i have had a brown diatom,cyno, black brush take over in my 56 Gallon.

The past week i decided to lower the LED to 50% and I took the foil off the reflector in my 55 thinking I had too much light. When the light turns on in the beginning of the light cycle the water is cloudy and starts to clear by evening. I have also added purigen to the filters and now added UV pumps to the aquarium hoping to clear the cloudy water. I just can't get a hold on things and all levels seem ok. I have also done the 1-2 punch on both tanks and that seemed to help reset, but the problems came back. Do I need to do a complete reset or how do i go about gettting the plants back into control over the algae.

I have posted a couple of times regarding problems with these tanks and I seem to never get a response or help. Getting desperate.
dtrea2662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-28-2014, 09:09 PM   #2
Mirkinator
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Mirkinator's Avatar
 
PTrader: (11/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Idaho, USA
Posts: 309
Default

Sorry you havent had much luck with responses, I am no expert but I can let you know my thoughts and where I would start. So the Dutch XMB has HUGE par values @24" anywhere from 180 to 90 depending on your beam angle, which is tons of light and I have a feeling your light is less then 24" from the substrate . Just turning it down to %50 may not help much because you need to find the sweet spot where the plants can out compete the algae. And you could have other issues to blame like water quality.

I have some similar issues as you and here are some things you can try (didnt see it mentioned in your posts). I am going to RO water next as I think my water is to blame, but I systematically when through each one of these options before deciding and it has dramatically reduced it. Just the fact your phospates dont drop, your hi TDS and cloudy water, that may be your issue or possibly the substrate. Keep in mind that it can take some time before you see results and doing too many One-Two punches can kill your happy bacteria in your filter. So I would make a change, wait about a week (may need more) and see what happens: May have to do two of these in conjunction.

-Drop the photo period (5 - 7 total hrs)
-Crank your CO2, past the pH you think you need to be at, all the way to the fish start to notice (or just a major increase i.e. 2bps to 4bps)
-You mentioned a spray bar, make sure it only breaks the surface of the water at night
-Put a 2hr break in the middle of your photo period
-Raise your lights 2-5"s (which is different then dimming due to the spread.)
-Go to half or "light" EI if its not heavily planted and think plants can get away with it
-Try excel to see if a daily dose will help.
- try RO water.


These are the things that have helped me narrow down my issues and should help you get yours narrowed down a bit. I know just how frustrating this can be... but I cant say I have a quick and easy fix
Mirkinator is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 12:44 AM   #3
jrman83
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: White Plains, MD
Posts: 1,000
Default

Is the BML lifted off of the 56g at all? I have the standard high light BML 3" off of my 75g and still get 55 PAR at my substrate. Can't imagine what levels you must be at. Probably much more than you need. I can get to 130 PAR on my 125g with dual BML, but I keep it backed down to around 65. I measure with a PAR meter. Knocking it to 50% is probably good for now.

I would stop looking at the ph/kh/CO2 chart and just keep tweaking on the CO2 to you see the point where your plants will start to perk up.

How much plant mass do you have in each tank? A lot of plant mass in a tank goes a long way in controlling algae.
__________________
Eheim Pimp #448
jrman83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-29-2014, 01:16 AM   #4
dtrea2662
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 45
Default

The BML is on the legs i got with it. The Height is approximately 24" off the substrate. It has a 90 deg beam angle and I have it running at 50% now which i switched from 100% 4 days ago. I added the UV sterilizers and have some external air running from them to boost some oxygen in the tanks. In the 55L i had noticed my rainbows and a platy hanging at the surface which is why i added a bit more O2. There is very little surface agitation. The spray bars create a little bit of ripple. And there are all kinds of circulation. The filters are clean. The substrate has Laterite and fluorite gravel. It is however close to 3-4 years old and running.

The first 4 pics are of my 55 L. The last 3 are of the 56 Column. I have no lids on the tanks.

I keep up religiously on my EI dosing. I check nutrient levels once or twice a week to see how much extra i am getting. The one thing i notice is that when i test for FE i never get a reading. I dose 1/8 tsp every other day of CSM-B. I also have a KH of 5 in the 55 and 4 in the 56. I check the PH with a pen that is calibrated and accurate. I also use drop checkers. I can't really think of any other info to provide. If there is more information you would like to help me through this trying time i would most definitely divulge it.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	55L 1.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	48.6 KB
ID:	313057  

Click image for larger version

Name:	55L 2.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	74.4 KB
ID:	313065  

Click image for larger version

Name:	55L 3.jpg
Views:	16
Size:	48.4 KB
ID:	313073  

Click image for larger version

Name:	55L 4.jpg
Views:	17
Size:	49.8 KB
ID:	313081  

Click image for larger version

Name:	56C 1.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	48.0 KB
ID:	313089  

Click image for larger version

Name:	56C 2.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	69.5 KB
ID:	313097  

Click image for larger version

Name:	56C 3.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	69.2 KB
ID:	313105  

dtrea2662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 05:58 AM   #5
dtrea2662
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 45
Default

Did the pictures scare everyone away?
dtrea2662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 06:26 AM   #6
OVT
Carpe Diem
 
OVT's Avatar
 
PTrader: (142/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: SF East Bay Area
Posts: 5,183
Default

My very first reaction seeing the pictures: Bacterial Bloom.

v3
__________________
Courtesy * Integrity * Perseverance * Indominable Spirit * and Self Control
Tenets of TKD
OVT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 09:06 AM   #7
roadmaster
Planted Tank Guru
 
roadmaster's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Missouri united states
Posts: 2,000
Default

It is the light (too much).Source of 90% of problem's in planted tank's.
Go back and look at the pictures you posted of these tank's in Febuary of this year I believe. (they look good) compared to now .Only see perhap's a K deficiency on anubia's in feb photo's.Some BBA reported which is often spot treated along with better maint routine/water changes.
If only thing different from Feb to present is the lighting,,then you have sourced the problem.

Last edited by roadmaster; 04-30-2014 at 09:27 AM.. Reason: addition
roadmaster is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 02:10 PM   #8
dtrea2662
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 45
Default

I have been on a rollercoaster ride with these two tanks. I have gone through countless fert regimes and ended on EI which is holding my fert parameters right where i want them. I have also had to switch out the needle valves to fabcos due to inconsistent co2 levels. I have also switched out the co2 inline atomizers to a 3"X20" reactors. On the 56 I swapped out a coralife 2X65W cf to a BML XB Dutch. On the 55 I have actually reduced the light from 4*32W t-8s to 2bulbs. The big thing i did was do a massive trim and scape of both tanks. Since then they both have been cloudy and that was 2 months ago.
dtrea2662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-30-2014, 02:11 PM   #9
dtrea2662
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 45
Default

Actually now looking at the pics. That was right after i did the new rescape and trim.
dtrea2662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 12:22 PM   #10
dtrea2662
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 45
Default

I appreciate all the help thus far. I reduced my led to 50%, i also reduced duration of light to 7 hours. I looked into some other things as well. I went to recalibrate my PH meter and it was reading 4.6 when it should have been reading 4. So i adjusted it and when i thought i was targeting 30 ppm CO2 in my aquarium, i was actually dosing over 50 ppm which would explain why it seemed to take forever to get my co2 diffused. What used to be an uncountable flow of bubbles into reactor has become 3-4 per sec. I wonder if too much co2 played a part in all of this. I have also been running the uv pumps 24/7 and have them so they are providing a minute amount of air bubbles coming out to aerate the water with o2 as much as possible. I also trimmed all the plants i could of algae infested leaves and dead leaves that were overcome with algae. Its amazing but the tanks seem to be coming around. I also have a lot of plants coming soon to beef up the plant mass in both tanks.

One quest i do have is should i remove the UV lights with out risking the onset of problems again or is the dissolved O2 they are providing benificial to the point of leaving those unsitely things in the aquarium.
dtrea2662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 02:25 PM   #11
Raymond S.
Planted Tank Guru
 
Raymond S.'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hot Springs Ar. 71901
Posts: 2,395
Default

Have you done a test kit check on your source water ?
Mostly about the PO4 because SO4 has been known to make the water cloudy.
Not from exp. but rather reading on here. But also have you checked the TDS on
the source water before using ?
Next would be how old are the bulbs in the 55g ? In the T8, I find that 10 months
is about all I can expect of real good growth from them. The Pearling is noticably reduced shortly after that age on the bulbs in my tank. You have a miss match
between the bulbs and ferts and CO2 in that tank also. But start/w the water.
How does it test before putting it into the tank ?
__________________
The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
Raymond S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 02:36 PM   #12
dtrea2662
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 45
Default

A mismatch? I don't quite understand what you are asking. The bulbs are brand new. TDS on tap is 150, PH 8.4, PO4 0. But that will all be resolved shortly. I am setting up a 50G holding tank/ro in the basement and going to use a pump to move the water upstairs for the water changes on both tanks. I already have an ro for my mischling/TB tank so why not move it downstairs and utilize for all tanks.
dtrea2662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 04:15 PM   #13
Raymond S.
Planted Tank Guru
 
Raymond S.'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hot Springs Ar. 71901
Posts: 2,395
Default

What I'm referring to is that EI is specificaly designed for med-high light/CO2
environments. You now have a low light level in there. If you intend to continue
this level of light you would be better off using the level of ferts listd under "and I am dosing for" and the pop up will list "EI Low light/Weekly" and highlight that category.
The level of plants in that tank is not high. High plant mass also goes/w EI ferts.
If the source water is to change shortly, then making changes now would be
a double change as you no doubt will need to change it again after the tank settles into the new water. I'd wait till about 4-6 water changes are done before making any large changes in anything else. After then, the TDS and high Phosphates should come down at least a bit an then you can adjust just one time. Actually with just a couple of minor changes instead of one now and then a couple after the water change over. And I should have mentioned that I don't see much of fast growing plants. With maybe a med level
of plants and few that are fast growing...what is there to use up all the ferts you are dosing. I actually suspect this tank to be very heavy in excess ferts which are not being diluted enough by the water changes, nor being used up by the plants giving you a high TDS and Phosphate reading...end result, cloudy water. If this is true, and you only change the water overto RO, the cloudiness will go away at first and then come back...likely time frame three weeks-one month.
I ran into a few problems when trying to do too much at one time in a tank.
There is a product ...one is called Sea Chem Equalibrium...that goes/w RO water to bring back the mineral balance.
__________________
The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...

Last edited by Raymond S.; 05-02-2014 at 04:50 PM.. Reason: And I should have mentioned...
Raymond S. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 04:52 PM   #14
dtrea2662
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 45
Default

I thought when i read Hoppy's PAR writeup, 1 t-8 bulb would give me 25-30 PAR at the substrate in my 55. So two would put me barely into high light. So i had 3 going and disco'd one. As far as EI, I check my levels every week at water change and adjust my dosing accordingly. It is more of a modified EI to keep my parameters where they need to be.
dtrea2662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2014, 09:06 PM   #15
dtrea2662
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Dubuque, IA
Posts: 45
Default

All I can say is wow. Yes. These are the same tanks. I almost refuse to believe it.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20140502_160224_601.jpg
Views:	11
Size:	74.4 KB
ID:	314858  

Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_20140502_160306_575.jpg
Views:	13
Size:	84.3 KB
ID:	314866  

dtrea2662 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012