Lets Talk Bucephalandra
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Plants


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-19-2014, 05:49 AM   #1
Ericj
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (53/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pollock Pines, CA
Posts: 104
Default

Lets Talk Bucephalandra


So I've been getting a ton of questions about growing Bucephalandra (buce) lately due to my sales and ROAK, so I figured it would be best to get a thread for the discussion rather than doing it all in IMs.

A quick overview:

All Bucephalandra are rhizome plants, and should be planted either with roots into substrate without covering the rhizome, or attached to wood or rock. The roots will attach very firmly to either.

Naming: There are many many different looking buce, each with their own name. Almost none of these names are scientific, but seem to refer to the location they were found, or determined by the finder. There is a ton of confusion surrounding naming, and very little standardization. Two plants with the same name could end up being completely different due to one or both being misnamed somewhere along the line. I've owned over 40 types of buce, and seen first hand the problems with the naming conventions on many many occasions.

Lighting: Buce seems to survive under most lighting, however seems to need at least medium light for much growth. It grows quit slowly even under high light, with no more than 1 new leaf ever week at most.

Ferts: Buce does like a full range of ferts in the water column. If roots are down into substrate it can take some from there, but it seems to take most from the water. I've only grown them using EI dosing.

CO2: Buce really likes a good source of CO2. Injected CO2 gas is ideal, but alternate sources such as excel does also work. I've grown buce in a tank using nothing but excel, but growth was significantly slower, with smaller leaves, and almost no new growing points to form new plants.

Splitting: Buce can be split and propogated much like Anubias. Rhizomes can be cut, and new plants can form at any point along a rhizome. Once new plants start to generate their own roots, you can cut them from the rhizome to grow on it's own.

Acclimating: Buce does not like changing conditions. It will often lose a good number of leaves when being placed into a new aquarium. A tank with good levels of CO2 definitely helps prevent too much loss.

Emmersed: Buce can be grown emmersed. Switching from emmersed to submersed often causes the majority of leaves to be lost as it acclimates. If the rhizome does not rot, new growth should start after a week or two of acclimation.

This is most observations from growing them myself, and from what I've read from other peoples experiences. I'm in no way an expert in aquatic plants, and just been focused on Buce for about a year now, and have my share of successes and complete failures.

I do have to say though, I adore all Bucephalandra, and am totally addicted. Watching them (slowly) grow and fill out into larger plants is amazing and I have yet to have any type which disappointed me!!

This thread is open to stories from anyones experiences with this plant, photos, experiments, identification help, anything really related to Buce.

Buce Addicts wanted!
__________________

Last edited by Ericj; 04-24-2014 at 05:58 PM.. Reason: updates
Ericj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-19-2014, 07:05 AM   #2
Seadon
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Seadon's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Manchester, nh
Posts: 456
Default

Awesome thread! Are there any sp you recommend somebody new to Buce start with or are they all the same care wise?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Seadon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2014, 07:15 AM   #3
Ericj
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (53/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pollock Pines, CA
Posts: 104
Default

I don't think they are all the same care wise, but the differences are definitely subtle. Mini varieties seem to be more fragile when acclimating. Achilles also can completely melt on you in a new tank no matter what you do, and I only mention that one because it's the most popular large leaf type.

I think a good starting point would be one of the brownie types (brownie red, blue, green, jande, phantom, etc...although ghost is a bit more fragile it seems, and more expensive).

Another important thing to look for is to try to get a plant which you KNOW has been grown submersed. With so may plants being sold which are imported directly from Indonesia, you never know if you're getting the emmersed form, which could lose some or all it's leaves when you submerse it, which could lead to killing it completely. In this case it's usually good to buy them from another member in a forum like these, which you can ask if it's already growing submersed before you buy!

Both aren't game breakers in terms of your success, but for a first time, they can turn into hurdles.
__________________
Ericj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2014, 04:55 PM   #4
Duck5003
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (40/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 762
Default

Great thread Eric! You know, there is a pretty awesome crypt thread floating around this place. Pics of all the different varieties. What do you think about posting good picture examples of known varieties? Try to get a running log going. There really arent any GOOD sources out there with a large variety listed with good pictures.

One thing i've noticed with Bucephalandra, is it seems they like to flower a lot more in lower light and non-co2 conditions. Here is a pic of an old spathe on the only buce i keep in low-medium light, no co2, no ferts. Not sure what the name on it is, but it has a beautiful pink/purple hue to it. This was from a while ago, it actually has a new one that should open any day now. In my higher light tank with DIY co2, ferts, i never see any spathes but get much better growth. Anyone else experiencing this??
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20140127_184614.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	73.5 KB
ID:	307810  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20140127_184624.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	52.2 KB
ID:	307818  

Duck5003 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2014, 05:55 PM   #5
Seadon
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Seadon's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Manchester, nh
Posts: 456
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericj View Post
I don't think they are all the same care wise, but the differences are definitely subtle.

I think a good starting point would be one of the brownie types (brownie red, blue, green, jande, phantom, etc...although ghost is a bit more fragile it seems, and more expensive).

Thank you. So one of the Brownie sp. with the exception of brownie ghost would be a good starting point.

Also, I was wondering, what makes this plant so special? It is a very pretty plant, but what special features does it have that make it so expensive and sought after?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Seadon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2014, 06:19 PM   #6
Subtletanks91
Moss'n shrimp pimp
 
Subtletanks91's Avatar
 
PTrader: (40/100%)
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Redwood city, ca
Posts: 2,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadon View Post
Thank you. So one of the Brownie sp. with the exception of brownie ghost would be a good starting point.

Also, I was wondering, what makes this plant so special? It is a very pretty plant, but what special features does it have that make it so expensive and sought after?



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I think it's so uncommon and expensive because it's still fairly new to the trade. It's like when a new mutation or shrimp we already keep pops up. It's uncommon and also expensive because it's new.
__________________
must....have.....more....moss n shrimp!!!!!!!!!!

Subtletanks91 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2014, 07:16 PM   #7
Ericj
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (53/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pollock Pines, CA
Posts: 104
Default

Duck, I completely agree about the flowering. In fact I've found just reducing CO2 will cause flowering. I had 2 tanks set up, but only one with injected CO2, the other with excel, the lighting and ferts were exactly the same. The tank with CO2 had way more growth in general but now flowers, the tank with excel constantly flowered.

This is a great place for Buce pictures! I'd request that they be all tank raised photos, and nothing which is newly imported. That way we KNOW it's submersed growth, and will get a more consistent set of photos.
__________________
Ericj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2014, 07:45 PM   #8
Ericj
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (53/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pollock Pines, CA
Posts: 104
Default

For me, what makes the plant special is the fact you get such beautiful and varied growth from a rhizome plant. That means you can create beautiful aquariums without the constant maintenance of trimming stem plants, and the more growth you get, the more full and lush it looks without looking overgrown or taking over.

It's quite hard to get a lot of one type as well, which means it's kind of like 50-70 rare plants, rather than just one. So none of them are going to get common very quickly.
__________________
Ericj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2014, 07:00 AM   #9
cape
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: GTA
Posts: 92
Default

Has anyone kept buces with low tech tank, Low light and no excel? I see Duck5003 said he kept them in a no dosing tank but not sure if that includes excel?

If OP states that growth is noticeably slower with just excel, would that mean with no excel/CO2, growth would almost be nonexistent?
cape is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2014, 02:29 PM   #10
Seadon
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Seadon's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Manchester, nh
Posts: 456
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericj View Post
For me, what makes the plant special is the fact you get such beautiful and varied growth from a rhizome plant. That means you can create beautiful aquariums without the constant maintenance of trimming stem plants, and the more growth you get, the more full and lush it looks without looking overgrown or taking over.

I'm still kind of new to planted tanks, so bear with me...are you saying rhizome plants won't get overgrown...is this because all growth comes from the rhizome, so it can't really expand past where you want it?..also I have one rhizome plant (a banana plant) how do you propagate rhizome plants? From what I understand you cut the rhizome and new growth will come from there, does this mean you cut a chunk off and you have a new plant, or do you kind of score the rhizome and wait for new growth, then split the rhizome?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Seadon is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2014, 03:59 PM   #11
Duck5003
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (40/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cape View Post
Has anyone kept buces with low tech tank, Low light and no excel? I see Duck5003 said he kept them in a no dosing tank but not sure if that includes excel?

If OP states that growth is noticeably slower with just excel, would that mean with no excel/CO2, growth would almost be nonexistent?
The two pics below are the same plant in the low tech tank. This tank is zero ferts, zero excel, shrimp only. Its under a single zoomed t-5 6500K bulb. The first pic (same as above) was taken 1-14-14. The second two pics (2&3) were taken today (about 5 minutes ago lol). I would say the plant has doubled, and i could easily split this plant in half, and have two completely seperate plants.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seadon View Post
I'm still kind of new to planted tanks, so bear with me...are you saying rhizome plants won't get overgrown...is this because all growth comes from the rhizome, so it can't really expand past where you want it?..also I have one rhizome plant (a banana plant) how do you propagate rhizome plants? From what I understand you cut the rhizome and new growth will come from there, does this mean you cut a chunk off and you have a new plant, or do you kind of score the rhizome and wait for new growth, then split the rhizome?
I have no experience with banana plants, but with other species of rhizomes i've dealt with, as long as the rhizome part your cutting off has roots and a few leaves, it will form its own entire plant. Sometimes on the rhizome you'll see a plant itself just start to appear.

The rhizome itself does grow, but thats the slow part which is the main reason they dont get overgrown. Even at max light, co2 ferts, these guys dont "take-off" so they are easy to keep managed. They also typically have a max size which at a point they just continue to get bushier and make new little plants.

On the bottom two pictures (4&5) you can see the two examples. The 4th pic has a bunch of baby plants shooting out on the bottom. The last pic (5th) used to be one plant (left center, one black rock one red), and i cut it in half. Hope this helps!
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20140127_184614.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	73.5 KB
ID:	309106  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20140421_102847.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	49.5 KB
ID:	309114  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20140421_102826.jpg
Views:	45
Size:	50.9 KB
ID:	309122  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20140421_104552.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	67.1 KB
ID:	309130  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20140421_104615.jpg
Views:	47
Size:	105.8 KB
ID:	309138  

Duck5003 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2014, 04:06 PM   #12
Duck5003
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (40/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ericj View Post
This is a great place for Buce pictures! I'd request that they be all tank raised photos, and nothing which is newly imported. That way we KNOW it's submersed growth, and will get a more consistent set of photos.
Completely agree. I'll work on trying to get some nice pics of some of my confirmed species with labels on them (anyone else, please do the same!) Eric, maybe from there we can get a running log in the OP of the best representations of each variation?

And definitely agree with making sure these are of submersed growth only (at least new leaves since you got the plant, not just new plant in water). We could always start another post or log of emersed if enough people were interested??

*Eric here are some of the super blue. It's a super slow grower
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	20140421_150011.jpg
Views:	52
Size:	99.8 KB
ID:	309210  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20140421_145952.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	87.4 KB
ID:	309218  

Click image for larger version

Name:	20140421_145849.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	72.6 KB
ID:	309226  


Last edited by Duck5003; 04-21-2014 at 08:09 PM.. Reason: pic
Duck5003 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-21-2014, 08:48 PM   #13
Subtletanks91
Moss'n shrimp pimp
 
Subtletanks91's Avatar
 
PTrader: (40/100%)
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Redwood city, ca
Posts: 2,509
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cape View Post
Has anyone kept buces with low tech tank, Low light and no excel? I see Duck5003 said he kept them in a no dosing tank but not sure if that includes excel?

If OP states that growth is noticeably slower with just excel, would that mean with no excel/CO2, growth would almost be nonexistent?
No, I just received a brownie red from someone Saturday. And his was grown in a low light no fert or co2 tank. And it has a lot of leaves. Since Saturday it shot up two new leaves in my shrimp tank.
__________________
must....have.....more....moss n shrimp!!!!!!!!!!

Subtletanks91 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-22-2014, 09:59 PM   #14
Ericj
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (53/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Pollock Pines, CA
Posts: 104
Default

Here are a few photos, I'll update the first post as we get good images of different types.

Icarus Bell


Centipede


Brownie Phantom


Green Wave


Biblis


Brownie Blue


I will get photos of more plants from my tanks soon!
__________________
Ericj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-23-2014, 01:20 AM   #15
Kehy
Wannabe Guru
 
Kehy's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 1,037
Default

For the two buces I've had (sadly one vanished), I just kept them like my anubias and they seemed perfectly happy. The best growth occurred when they were positioned in the output of my HOB filter, partially emerged and directly under the light, this is also where my anubias do the best. Didn't need co2 or Excel, and I'm still seeing growth.
Kehy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012