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Old 04-17-2014, 03:38 AM   #31
jeffkrol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jubs View Post
snip
Something tells me you'd need a solenoid between the bottles..
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:40 AM   #32
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Hmmm... Nope:
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:52 AM   #33
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Hmmm... Nope:
so if the solenoid gets stuck in the closed position..what happens.......???
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Old 04-17-2014, 04:54 AM   #34
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Nothing. 200g of soda and acid citric cannot produce 8kg/cm2 pressure. And safe valve will be released at 4kg/cm2. I guess...

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Old 04-17-2014, 05:17 AM   #35
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Nothing. 200g of soda and acid citric cannot produce 8kg/cm2 pressure. And safe valve will be released at 4kg/cm2. I guess...

Sent from my SGH-I337M using Tapatalk
I know it is not possible but that is why I suggested a solenoid between the bottles.. Stops the reaction while allowing the pressure built up to vent..
When the solenoid opens the reaction would begin again.. I think.. maybe w/ a check valve on the outtake
I'm actually surprised they can hold the 35psi w/ out blowing off the bottles..
but I guess this isn't as much as I think..

anyways just spit balling here for discussion. I'm probably not grasping the whole concept..
As long as releasing the safety is just gas.. really no mess...
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Old 04-17-2014, 10:22 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
I know it is not possible but that is why I suggested a solenoid between the bottles.. Stops the reaction while allowing the pressure built up to vent..
When the solenoid opens the reaction would begin again.. I think.. maybe w/ a check valve on the outtake
I'm actually surprised they can hold the 35psi w/ out blowing off the bottles..
but I guess this isn't as much as I think..

anyways just spit balling here for discussion. I'm probably not grasping the whole concept..
As long as releasing the safety is just gas.. really no mess...
But with the solenoid between the bottles do I need to shake it every day?

I'll verify that with russians guys who use this DIY CO2.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:10 PM   #37
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The discussion has continued on my club's list and one of our members is opening a specialty plant shop and some people from the club are buying these directly from him and one of the customers received this from him. This is a direct quote from the manufacturer.

1. You will need two 2 liter PET soda bottle, e.g. Coke, Pepsi, etc.
2. Mark these bottles as Bottle A and B.
3. Empty Reagent A (Citric Acide 200 grams) into Bottle A and add
600ml of water. Shake well until everything is dissolved. You will
notice that the water will be colder to touch.
4. Take out one of the DIY CO2 system. There are two areas where you
can screw on the PET bottles. The first one is the one with a
pressure gauge (A) and the second one is the one with the regulator
(B).
5. Screw in Bottle A you made in number 3 into DIY CO2 (A).
6. Empty Reagent B (Baking Soda 200 grams) into Bottle B and add
200ml of water. You do no have to dissolve the contents in Bottle B.
7. Screw in Bottle B into DIY CO2 (B).
8. Close the regulator of the DIY CO2 and make sure it is completely shut off.
9. Squeeze Bottle A until liquid in Bottle A starts to transfer to
Bottle B. You should see reaction that will start producing CO2.
Keep on squeezing Bottle A until bottle is very firm (full of gas) and
you can't squeeze the bottle anymore.
10. Attach CO2 gas tubing to the regulator and to the CO2 diffuser.
Release regulator slowly until you see bubbles coming out of the CO2
diffuser.

Many first time users turn on the regulator too fast resulting to the
citric acid water moving too fast to the baking soda area, thus
reducing the true potential lifetime of the co2 production. The whole
trick here is to trickle drip citric acid into the baking soda bottle.

You don't have to touch anything for the citric acid to flow into the
baking soda. Once reaction started, it will automatically such citric
acid into the baking soda when it is needed. However, it has been
observed that you may need to swirl the bottles once a week to make
sure that fresh baking soda gets exposed to the citric acid.

You should get around 6 weeks at 8 hours a day of CO2 at 1 bubble per
second. Although we can get sometimes up to 8 weeks.


So if you read till the end they state that it should be shut off daily, manually I don't do that currently but will be investing in a solenoid to do it for me lol.

Like stated above the pressure can not increase with it shut off if it is up to working pressure, the pressure inside of the bottles is what causes the whole thing to work and causes a syphon to build up more pressure when it is needed and only when it is needed, kind of genius once you get how it all works. It's really hard to explain it without seeing it work in person.
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Old 04-17-2014, 09:32 PM   #38
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Still leads to believe a solenoid between the 2 reaction bottles would make it "automated" as in no reaction..

Which As I said would have to be in a DIY set up since the "joiner" piece is one piece plastic..

Quote:
The whole
trick here is to trickle drip citric acid into the baking soda bottle.
The only problem w/ the solenoid on the outlet is you will never completely stop the reaction.. since the 2 solutions will always be allowed to mix (albeit very slowly) by natural diffusion. I don't see it as a problem, and breaking the draw between bottles may, in practice, not work i.e it might not restart.
you also have a problem w/ salt/acids attacking the valve.

My Chem is a bit rusty though and it looks like a solenoid on the out is just fine..and much simpler
Not to mention at that rate.. running 24/7 wouldn't kill the fish either (I could be wrong on this though)..just exhaust your ingredients.
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Old 04-18-2014, 05:58 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffkrol View Post
Still leads to believe a solenoid between the 2 reaction bottles would make it "automated" as in no reaction..

Which As I said would have to be in a DIY set up since the "joiner" piece is one piece plastic..



The only problem w/ the solenoid on the outlet is you will never completely stop the reaction.. since the 2 solutions will always be allowed to mix (albeit very slowly) by natural diffusion. I don't see it as a problem, and breaking the draw between bottles may, in practice, not work i.e it might not restart.
you also have a problem w/ salt/acids attacking the valve.

My Chem is a bit rusty though and it looks like a solenoid on the out is just fine..and much simpler
Not to mention at that rate.. running 24/7 wouldn't kill the fish either (I could be wrong on this though)..just exhaust your ingredients.
That's the thing, when the baking soda side gets 1 ml or 2ml of citric acid it completely backs itself back into the citric acid bottle, the line is completely clear of citric acid it doesn't stay in the line at all. As the pressure drops a tiny bit after a few hours it very slowly refills the line from the citric acid bottle but it doesn't continue to stay in the line on the baking soda bottle. It doesn't syphon the citric acid quickly, it takes hours, but it does retract back into the the citric acid bottle within a second or two (if that long) and then the line remains clear of the citric acid till the syphon starts over again.

Like I said, you'd have to see it in action to really understand how it works.

One thing to remember is this isn't a science class vinegar and baking soda chemical reaction, it is a small little fizzle and its over. This is because of the diluted solutions of acid and alkalinity of the solutions in the bottles. I'm pretty sure if you were to use a raw acid and raw bicarbonate then the whole thing would explode from the violent chemical reaction but this isn't how this works.

There is also no way to put a solenoid between the bottles as the entry between the bottles is built into rail it is not an airline/co2 tubing. I have seen a couple kits on eBay that include a solenoid with the kit but I bought mine from a stateside seller the others were from Asian sellers and I didn't know at the time how the system truly worked and figured someone was trying to make an extra buck.
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:36 AM   #40
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DON'T USE THIS DEVICE!
It always leaks (CO2 leak), pressure jump, needle valve get blocked by acid.
Acid destroy all rubber parts (thats = CO2 leak).

I'll try to use it with sugar+yeast.
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Old 08-03-2014, 07:40 AM   #41
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What is your recipe? Where do you get your citric acid?
Citric acid can normally be found at the pharmacy.
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Old 08-03-2014, 08:53 PM   #42
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The problem of this device is evacuation valve, it's always leak.
I blocked this valve and the things goin much better now.
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Old 08-04-2014, 01:03 AM   #43
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The problem of this device is evacuation valve, it's always leak.
I blocked this valve and the things goin much better now.
I thought this valve was there to prevent the bottle from exploding in case the CO2 line gets blocked? If so, why would you want to purposely disable a safety feature?
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Old 08-04-2014, 02:04 AM   #44
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Citric acid can normally be found at the pharmacy.
I don't see it at websites of CVS or Walgreens. I saw it on Walmart website. Found it cheapest at a wine brewing co. One lb $7. Can it be bought cheaper?

Last edited by Hilde; 08-04-2014 at 06:19 PM.. Reason: added
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Old 08-04-2014, 03:47 AM   #45
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The pressure will never going to 8 (bottle's max). So, you're safe to disable it. It's always leak and cause the pressure up, this increase the bubbles count and can wipe out your fishes.

So, make sure it's not leak (put the whole system in the water when you charge it) . Also, you can use half of the dose and solenoid (there is not any problem with it).

If the pressure up without reason it's 100% leak.

Last edited by Darkblade48; 08-04-2014 at 08:57 AM.. Reason: No foul language.
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