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Old 01-19-2008, 10:24 PM   #1
skabooya
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Finally! Take 3 (pg15 or 16)!


After waiting since May 07 I am finally going to start my 32gal tank.

My husband bought me the 32gal in may for my b-day. I couldnt play with it then because I had just gotten back from University and the house was a disgrase. Then we went on our honeymoon, came back and I started reasearching substrates and pricing them out.

September came and I really wanted to start a new tank (already had my 20gal going). I fell in love with nano's and I already had everything I needed so my 4gal planted was born. I am a substitute teacher so when september came I was working almost steady.

December I finally decided on the substrate I wanted to use (flourite) and after talking to many lfs sources and looking online I went with my cheapest option for shipping to Canada and ordered from aquariumplants.com.
My lfs wanted $74 per bag YIKES!

My substrate was supposted to show up December twenty something, but it never did so after working it out with the wonderful people at aquariumplants.com They re-shipped with some free root tabs Jan 15.
I should recieve my shipment this monday January 21, according to ups.

Lighting over this tank is 40watts of NO flourescent. 1.25wpg total or approx 1.1 getting into the tank.

Filtration will be fluval 404 canister filter (I already have it). I need to buy new plastic tubing for it because what i have is too short (tubes to not reach top of tank).

I have lovely soft ph neutral-acidic water. 6.5 on average out of the tap.

Plants:
this is where i am having issues. I would love to have nice tall plants in the background but i want them narrow leaf like vals nana.

Would vals nana survive under 1.1wpg? I was also thinking about dwarf sag but will it grow to the surface? It something i want so I want to know if it definitely will grow to the surface and not just a maybe. Another worry i have is that I will be using excel once and a while so i am afraid of melting the vals. I will also be using jobes root sticks.

I was thinking about java moss for a forground because i wont be able to grow hairgrass. Or maybe 4 leaf clover.

Something else that grows nice and tall in the background would be nice too with dark green leaves like a crypt balanese maybe? im not sure.

For colour I would love to get red tiger lotus and crypt windetti red.

I know swords get big but im wondering about an ozolot sword or something that has interest to the leaves that does well under my lighting conditions.

The tank does have driftwood and I will more than likely be ripping apart my 20gal to get at the driftwood in there and making it a medium-high light tank.

I have some brazilian pennywort im going to try in this tank as well as some baby tears, sunset hygro and micranthemum umbrosum.

Any other ideas?


Fish: Im seariously considering

2 or 3- silver angelfish
6 marble hatchets
2 german blue rams
6 rummynose tetras (maybe 10)

I may want to add some ottos to this tank as well but im not sure yet.

Please help and give some ideas an opinions.

Thank you.
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Old 01-19-2008, 10:35 PM   #2
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What about a variety of crypts and anubias?
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Old 01-19-2008, 10:54 PM   #3
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Yes i do want to add some crypt windetti red and green and possibly balanase.
Anubias nana would be nice but they are hard to find around here and expensive. Do they spread?
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Old 01-19-2008, 11:28 PM   #4
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Crypts yes. Anubias has a rhizome root system and kinda spreads but very slow.
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Old 01-20-2008, 01:20 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by skabooya View Post
..
Any other ideas?..
I don't know if you have see this list and if some of those plants are available but it is a really good list of low light plants that you might find helpful.
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/lo...ht-plants.html


Also, I have tried aquariumplants.com grow your own bulbs and they seem to grow really well in low light as well as my high light tanks. The only thing is that they grow like weeds so you have to keep them pruned.
http://www.aquariumplants.com/Grow_Y...Bulbs_s/29.htm

I have also had a lot of success with their anubias nana plants and I found that I could not get anything locally that was as healthy and cheap as the anubias that I got from them.
http://www.aquariumplants.com/Nana_A...na_p/hf542.htm

Don't order stem plants from Aquairumplants. They don't seem to survive shipment. Mine never did no many how many times I ordered from them.
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:12 AM   #6
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Thank you.
Yes i know about the low light list but what wpg are those for. Other lists are for 2wpg or 2.5 which really isint in my category.
Most of the plants on your list will do fine in my range but there are others i am wondering about.

Good to know about the stem plants. Thank you. So bulbs and rhizomes plants would be fine to order from them then.
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Old 01-20-2008, 02:36 AM   #7
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..Good to know about the stem plants. Thank you. So bulbs and rhizomes plants would be fine to order from them then.
Yes, my experience has been positive with ordering bulbs and rhizome. The anubias all had lush green leaves with no algae, the root ball had good healthy growth and the rhizome was healthy. The other one that I have had success with is their java ferns(really healthy, survived shipment, no algae). I just recently used their Java Fern Mat in a tank that I set up.
http://www.aquariumplants.com/Java_F...us_p/mi575.htm

In this tank that I set up and so far it is doing well(however, this is a high light high tech tank). The java fern mat is behind the Buddha in this tank.


The java fern and anubias in the 3 gallon low tech nano tank below that I set up for my office are from aquariumplants. While this picture is outdated, the plants really filled in within 2 months, incuding the anubias, and the java fern grew many baby plantlets.
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Old 01-20-2008, 04:33 PM   #8
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you dont have vals (nana) or sag on your list. Other sourses ive read says that these plants are fine in low light. Is it true or am I just fooling myself.
If these two are good in low light tanks then which one should i get for a background. Tall narrow and grassy is what im looking for.
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Old 01-20-2008, 04:36 PM   #9
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PS. Substrate should come TOMORROW!!! YAY!!!
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Old 01-20-2008, 07:37 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skabooya View Post
you dont have vals (nana) or sag on your list. Other sourses ive read says that these plants are fine in low light. Is it true or am I just fooling myself.
If these two are good in low light tanks then which one should i get for a background. Tall narrow and grassy is what im looking for.
I am sorry, I should have given credit for the list to James From Cali who posted and updated it. This is James updated list, in which he lists Vals and Sag. Both vals and sag are excellent for low light plants and some people have successfully grown beautiful vals in nothing but kitty litter from what I have seen. The only reason that I don't use them in my low tech tanks is the possibility that they may be sensitive to the effects of Fluorish Excel which I dose to prevent algae and provide carbon to the plants. Some say Excel does not negatively effect vals and others say that it does. I would rather not chance it, so I stay away from vals.

Here is James updated list, it is also posted at the end of the link I provided.
FERNS & MOSSES
Marimo Ball- Aegagropila linnaei
African Water Fern - Bolbitis heudelotii
Watersprite - Ceratopteris thalictroides
Pheonix Moss - Fissidens fontanus
Zipper Moss - Fissidens zippelianus
Willow Moss - Fontinalis antipyretica
Philippine Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Philippine'
Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus
Red Java fern - Microsorum pteropus "red"
Windelov Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus 'Windelov'
Narrow Leaf Java Fern - Microsorum pteropus v. 'narrow leaf'
Pellia - Monosolenium tenerum
Mini Pellia - Riccardia chamedryfolia
Riccia - Riccia fluitans
Round Pellia - Süßwassertang
Flame Moss - Taxiphyllum alternans
Java Moss - Taxiphyllum barbieri
Peacock Moss - Taxiphyllum sp. 'peacock'
Taiwan Moss - Taxiphyllum sp.
Singapore Moss - Vesicularia dubyana
Christmas Moss - Vesicularia montagnei
Erect Moss - Vesicularia reticulata

STEM PLANTS
Waterwheel Plant - Aldrovanda vesiculosa
Bacopa - Bacopa caroliniana
Moneywort - Bocapa monnieri
Hornwort - Ceratophylum demersum
Watersprite - Ceratopteris thalictroides
Anacharis - Egeria densa
American Waterweed- Elodea canadensis
HC- Hemianthus callitrichoides
Stargrass - Heteranthera zosterifolia
Brazilian Pennywort - Hydrocotyle leucocephala
Water Pennywort - Hydrocotyle ranunculoides
Ceylon Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Ceylon'
Giant Hygro - Hygrophila corymbosa
Water Wisteria - Hygrophila difformis
Green Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma
Sunset Hygro - Hygrophila polysperma 'Rosanervig'
Dwarf Ambulia - Limnophila sessiliflora
Red Ludwigia- Ludwigia repens
Parrots Feather - Myriophyllum aquaticum
Guppy Grass - Najas guadalupensis
Downoi - Pogostemon helferi
Rotala Indica - Rotala indica
Rotala Rotundifolia - Rotala rotundifolia
Rotala Rotundifolia sp. Green - Rotala rotundifolia sp. 'Green'

FLOATERS
Hornwort - Ceratophylum demersum
Watersprite - Ceratopteris thalictroides
Anacharis - Egeria densa
Brazilian Pennywort - Hydrocotyle leucocephala
Water Pennywort- Hydrocotyle ranunculoides
Duckweed - Lemna minor
Parrots Feather - Myriophyllum aquaticum
Red Root Floater - Phyllanthus fluitans
Riccia - Riccia fluitans
Giant Slavinia - Salvinia molesta

CRYPTOCORYNE
Crypt Affinis - Cryptocoryne affinis
Crypt Aponogetifolia - Cryptocoryne aponogetifolia
Crypt Balansae - Cryptocoryne balansae
Crypt Becketii - Cryptcoryne becketii
Crypt Lutea - Cryptocoryne lutea
Micro Crypt - Cryptocoryne petchii
Pygmy Crypt - Cryptocoryne pygmaea
Crypt retrospiralis - Cryptocoryne retrospiralis
Crypt spiralis - Cryptocoryne spiralis
Crypt Walkeri - Cryptocoryne walkeri
Crypt Wendtii - Cryptocoryne wendtii
Crypt Willisi - Cryptocoryne willisi

ANUBIAS
Anubias barteri - Anubias barteri
Anubias barteri 'marble' - Anubias barteri 'marble'
Coffee leaf anubias - Anubias barteri v. 'coffeefolia'
Anubias barteri v. 'glabra' - Anubias barteri v. 'glabra'
Golden nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana golden'
Anubias nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana'
Narrow leaf nana - Anubias barteri v. 'nana narrow leaf'
Petite nana - Anubias barteri v. nana 'petite'
Hastifolia - Anubias hastifolia
Barteri Round Leaf - Anubias barteri v. ‘Round Leaf’
Gigantea - Anubias gigantea
Congensis - Anubias congensis
Lanceolota - Anubias lanceolota
Gracilis - Anubias gracilis
Anubias Barteri v Angustifolia - Anubias barteri v angustifolia
Caladiifolia -Anubias barteri v Caladiifolia
Anubias Afzelli - Anubias afzelli

SWORD PLANTS
Amazon Sword - Echinodorus amazonicus
Ruffle Sword - Echinodorus major
Melon Sword - Echinodorus osiris
Tropica Sword - Echinodorus parviflorus 'Tropica'
Red Flame Sword - Echinodorus 'Red Special'
Pygmy Chain Sword - Echnodorus tennelus
Uruguay Amazon Sword - Echinodorus uruguayensis

LILY'S
Lotus- Nymphaea pubescens
Tiger Lotus - Nymphaea zenkeri

GRASSES
Water Celery- Vallisneria americana
Contortion Val - Vallisneria asiatica
Vallisneria natans
Valliseneria rubra
Corkscrew Val - Vallisneria tortifolia
Dwarf Sag- Sagittaria subulata
Crinum calimistratum
Onion Plant - Crinum thaianum
Micro Sword - Lilaeopsis braziliensis
Crinum aquatica

APONOGETONS
Aponogeton ulvaceous
Aponogeton bouvianus
Aponogeton crispus
Aponogeton elongatus
Aponogeton undulatus
Rigidifolius - Aponogeton rigidifolius

CLOVERS
Water Clover - Mariselia minuta
Marsilea hirsuta
Four Leaf Clover - Mariselia quadrifolia

I hope you don't mind me asking, but was there a reason that you chose to go with Seachem Fluorite over Eco-Complete. Don't get me wrong, they are both great for growing plants, but for some reason the Eco-Complete tends to be more popular, so I was just curious. The only problem that I found with Fluorite was that it did not seem to hold down fine rooted stem plants like rotala indica and ludwiga repens too well.
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Old 01-20-2008, 08:42 PM   #11
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Awesome list! Thanks homer_simpson and james_from_cali for the list.

homer_simpson, for a second there, I thought you owned all the plants from the list lol.
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Old 01-20-2008, 10:42 PM   #12
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Lots of little reasons. Ive read about eco complete going bad after a while or contaminated bags (problem solved im sure), it was also slightly more expensive, it floats more readily than flourite (or so ive read), buffers water (which i dont need or want), difficult to clean (gravel syphon), it is also man made in my mind that is FAKE stuff.
All of these reasons are minor and can be worked around. Im sure its a great product and I was thinking about it for the fact that it was black.

I chose fluorite because its a natural baked clay that will absorb nutrients (that i inject into the tank) into itself thus holding and slowly releasing them back to the plants. I could not choose black because aquariumplants didnt have it in stock (still said comming soon). It doesnt bother me too much because the regular colour looks more natural anyway.

I currently have inert black gravel in my other tanks and the grain size is large. I have a difficult time keeping my rotala indica and rondifolia as well as a few others planted because of the large grain size so im not expecting too much of a difference. I can always put a small marble or stone on the roots/stem of the plant I planted to help hold it down. I do it with stubborn plants and it works great. I can also plant extra deep which works well for some thin plants too.


Thank you for the updated list. Its great LOVE IT!
I cant imagine growing some of those plants in 1.1wpg. Would that be a list for 2wpg and under?
If so maybe there should be a category next to it for minimum light threshold for each plant?
Again its a wonderful list and I will definitely be using it.
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:19 PM   #13
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Quote:
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...Thank you for the updated list. Its great LOVE IT!
I cant imagine growing some of those plants in 1.1wpg. Would that be a list for 2wpg and under?
If so maybe there should be a category next to it for minimum light threshold for each plant?
Again its a wonderful list and I will definitely be using it...
You're welcome, but all thanks and credit should really go to James From Cali who is the author of the list. James has more experience than I growing these in different light thresholds, so maybe he can chime in. I have heard some debates about whether or not some of these will grow below 2.0 watts per gallon. Some say yes and some say no and some say it can be done with c02 injection and or Excel supplementation in tanks below 2 watts per gallon.

Interesting about the Eco-Complete. I heard that they had a contaminated batch and the water chemistry issues are only temporary. One thing about Eco-Complete is that it is far more nutrient rich than fluorite. How that translates to plant growth is another story and I guess in a low light tank it probably would not matter. Everyone says that whether a substrate is nutrient rich or not does not matter but I have yet to see someone explain to me why a substrate like ADA Aquasoil gives such great plant growth even where people don't dose any water column ferts. The funny thing is that the same people that say that a nutrient dense substrate makes no difference are the same ones that say that ADA Aquasoil gives the best plant growth because it is so nutrient dense. Talk about a contradiction. This is the review I read about people who used Eco and I found it interesting.
http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/r...php/product/12

Mind you many of these reviews were done prior to the discovery of the contaminated batch.

Some of the contradictions that I read about with respect to people's experiences using different substrates is the reason I am attempting to test as many substrates as I can(time and space allowing) to see for myself if some of these things are true or not.

By the way, if you don't mind me asking, are the Jobes Plant Spikes that you are using the "16-2-6" ones for the "Lush Ferns and Palms." I ask only because I have some of these for a future project and was curious. Thanks
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:41 PM   #14
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That is an interesting thread. It looks like most of the reasons for choosing eco were colour and ease. The most common cons were compaction and leeching. Im gonna look for one of these about fluorite.

As for the wpg thing I guess when I start to specifically choose plants i am unsure about I will post here and see what people say.

I will be dosing excel here and there I wont be dependant on it. Also I will not have C02 in my tank. (just for more info )


I was staring at my empty tank earlier and I was really afraid of the exposed lights being so close to the top of what will be the water surface. The only thing protecting the wires are endcaps. Hagen waterhome manual says its fine but it really freaks me out. What about splash or condensation? Its a fully sealed top so it worries me.
The lights were about 1.5 -2 inches from the top of the water surface. So I took the frame for the bottom of the tank (its an optional item with this tank so you can make it rimless) and I put it on the top to make a frame around the top of the tank (acting as a riser) and then I put the hood on top of that. The lights are now about 3-4 ? inches away from the waters surface but it still freaks me out.

Any ideas on what i should do about this? I dont want to have to go out and buy a whole new lighting set up. I mentioned it to my husband once and it hurt him because he thought the gift he gave me wasent good enough. It took me all day to fix that problem.

So any ideas?
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Old 01-20-2008, 11:43 PM   #15
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Quote:
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By the way, if you don't mind me asking, are the Jobes Plant Spikes that you are using the "16-2-6" ones for the "Lush Ferns and Palms." I ask only because I have some of these for a future project and was curious. Thanks

And yes. Very cheap from walmart. I am still nervous about them because of the urea thing so instead of cutting it into 2 or 3 I cut them into 4's and 5's. Very teeny pieces but it works for a low tech tank.
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