Substrate/Plants/Cories
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Substrate


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-04-2015, 01:57 AM   #1
ej155
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: uk
Posts: 20
Default

Substrate/Plants/Cories


Hi

I'm upgrading my tank from a 23l Fluval Edge to a 150l Corner tank. I have a couple of plants in my Edge but want my new tank to be fully planted. I've read about all the different kinds of substrate but I'm still not 100% sure on which to go for due to my cories. I have sand in my current tank and this seems to be the best substrate for them, however not necessarily for my plants.
I was looking for your opinions please? Ideally I'd like some grasses in there too.

TIA
ej155 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 01-04-2015, 03:46 AM   #2
GMYukonon24s
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 3,199
Default

I've had good luck keeping my cories and plants with eco-complete.
__________________
110g Tropical Community & Sakura Shrimp
55g BN Breeding Grounds, Peacock Gudgeons, Panda, Pygmies, & Smudge Spot Cories, Rili Shrimp
10g RCS and show guppies

MIAPG - Come join us - Plantedtank - MI - Greatlakesaquaria
GMYukonon24s is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2015, 07:48 AM   #3
flight50
Wannabe Guru
 
flight50's Avatar
 
PTrader: (3/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: dfw
Posts: 1,180
Default

There are many stories out there about keeping cories in flourite isn't good. They say its too sharp and erodes their barbels. Well, actually its poor water quality at the substrate level that does this. I have keep cories with Flourite since 2001. My cories never loose their barbels due to shifting thru the substrate. My advice, select the best substrate for your plants. The cories will be fine with pretty much whatever you put in.
__________________
Eheim Pimp #509
Finnex Club Member #31
The Fraternity of Dirt #146

Builds - DIY Quad 40g Stands & 90g Stand









Tanks - low tech 29g
flight50 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2015, 05:06 PM   #4
CrypticLifeStyle
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Humarock - Boston MA
Posts: 1,336
Default

Can you show scientific proof, not passed down forum garbage water quality is what effects barbel erosion.
__________________
I'm not into the image, but into the hobby...
CrypticLifeStyle is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-04-2015, 05:50 PM   #5
jrill
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Eastern Kentucky
Posts: 772
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CrypticLifeStyle View Post
Can you show scientific proof, not passed down forum garbage water quality is what effects barbel erosion.
Probably as much chance as showing its caused by the substrate choice.
jrill is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2015, 12:08 PM   #6
CrypticLifeStyle
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Humarock - Boston MA
Posts: 1,336
Default

Good thing i ain't pushing that agenda huh, just the correction of the other being pushed. :-o
__________________
I'm not into the image, but into the hobby...
CrypticLifeStyle is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2015, 12:42 PM   #7
roadmaster
Planted Tank Guru
 
roadmaster's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Missouri united states
Posts: 2,444
Default

Me thinks sharp substrate may be contributer to barbel erosion that is then maybe compounded by organic waste build up and possible low oxygen at substrate level.
Good water movement throughout the tank plus good maint routine would go long way towards keeping organic matter from building up on/in substrate.
Lot's of oxygen needed to break down organic matter(bio filter) plus plant's use oxygen ,plus fishes use oxygen.
Good flow across lower levels and throughout the tank would help prevent gunk from collecting at the substrate and there will always be more oxygen in moving water than in stagnant areas.
roadmaster is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2015, 01:49 PM   #8
burr740
Wannabe Guru
 
burr740's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Bama
Posts: 1,143
Default

I think it's a generally understood fact that poor water conditions are a primary cause of ill health in livestock. For Cories this includes their barbels. I have no exp with flourite, but I tend to agree with flight50.

Blasting sand is another substrate often claimed to be bad for their barbels. This is complete hogwash. I have 9 various cories across 3 different tanks using 100% black diamond, and they are all pictures of health.
__________________
burr740 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2015, 01:54 PM   #9
roadmaster
Planted Tank Guru
 
roadmaster's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Missouri united states
Posts: 2,444
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by burr740 View Post
I think it's a generally understood fact that poor water conditions are a primary cause of ill health in livestock. For Cories this includes their barbels. I have no exp with flourite, but I tend to agree with flight50.

Blasting sand is another substrate often claimed to be bad for their barbels. This is complete hogwash. I have 9 various cories across 3 different tanks using 100% black diamond, and they are all pictures of health.
+one, I keep sterbai along with melanistius corydoras over black diamond blasting media.
roadmaster is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2015, 06:50 PM   #10
mattinmd
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 783
Default

For those looking for scientific evidence, I think the small amount of scientific data is well covered, with links to original papers, in the barbel erosion part of this article:

http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/corydoras-genus

Although the one article linked to Massachusetts costal zone management, linking barbel loss to necrosis resulting from parasites, seems to have moved and this appears to be the correct article:

http://www.mass.gov/eea/docs/czm/pub...hite-paper.pdf
__________________
New to planted tanks, avid gardener/tinkerer.
36g bow, excel, Finnex planted+
mattinmd is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2015, 07:14 PM   #11
CrypticLifeStyle
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Humarock - Boston MA
Posts: 1,336
Default

It's not scientifically covered at all except opinions, and hypothesis which is still where we are today. Problem is there is a plausible hypothesis for each side of the debate that can destroy each side of the debate. Personally i think it's all relevant in a combination deal minus the mystery link that binds it all together, and that isn't a nitrate water quality thing. If you read through all the forum posts on all the forums on the www most water parameters, and husbandry practice's are fine, and the wide range of substrates used whether rough/sharp or fine the issue comes up either direction,,,,unless everyone is lying which is possible too.

The first link is just a tpt forum members personal web page, 2nd link has absolutely nothing to do with corydoras.
__________________
I'm not into the image, but into the hobby...
CrypticLifeStyle is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2015, 08:39 PM   #12
mattinmd
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 783
Default

I didn't mean to imply it was strong or convincing...

The first link is of course not a scientific article, it is a person attempting to aggregate what little evidence exists...

The Allan James article referenced within it is interesting, but lacks any kind of scientific basis.

As for the second link, the Massachusetts article is definitely more about ictalurids, ie: channel catfish, and not so much about corydoras... It is definitely not solid evidence. That said, I do think that it is worth considering parasites as a possible cause of barbel loss in pretty much any catfish.

Regardless, I do agree that the matter is definitely not as simple as "sharp substrates cause barbel erosion". I think we can solidly disprove that one as a simple sole cause given the number of folks with sharp substrates and no erosion, and fine substrates with erosion.

I also think we can disprove nitrate levels as a simple sole cause, given the number of people with erosion and non-high nitrate levels.

As a matter of opinion, I think there's actually wide variety of causes.. Pretty much anything that can cause necrosis should be able to cause barbel loss. Barbels are pretty much just a protrusion of skin when you get down to the structural basics. Infections, small parasites, severe mechanical injury (ie: pinched/crushed to the point of loss of blood flow), chemical burns (which would probably have a more severe effect on gills), etc.
__________________
New to planted tanks, avid gardener/tinkerer.
36g bow, excel, Finnex planted+
mattinmd is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2015, 10:27 PM   #13
dirbrit
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 114
Default

I can only speak from my own experience.

I have three tanks with flourite as substrate. Two have corys in them.

The barbels on the fish are longer now than when I got them and they are doing great, raising about 30 fry right now. I was concerned about the flourite but they sift thru it continually and sometimes aggressively. It has not bothered at all it seems
__________________
Fraternity of Dirt #167

Last edited by dirbrit; 01-06-2015 at 02:07 AM.. Reason: stupid phone
dirbrit is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 01-05-2015, 11:23 PM   #14
Coralbandit
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
Coralbandit's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Saratoga,NY USA
Posts: 426
Default

Although sharp edges are a concern for all,IMO the issue with cory barbels is bacterial related(water quality).
The largest issue according to breeders of cories is bare bottom tanks and the bacteria that developes without substrate.MANY recommend even a 1/8 inch layer of sand(blasting sand being very common and affordable) to deal with this.
Any substrate not "tended" will become a bacterial mine field for a cory.
Keep it clean , a test kit can only tell you so much , a fish will tell you more!
__________________
I CHANGE WATER
Coralbandit is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012