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Old 03-23-2004, 02:28 AM   #16
d2hpeter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonapersona
If you run two canisters into the same diffuser, as the rates decline you will eventually get two bubbles put out at the same time. They will collide, turning into a big bubble, then race to the top smashing and absorbing all bubbles in their path. Most of the gas escapes at the surface. The ladder diffuser is cheap, get two, or get two entire systems.

IME, I was not happy with mixing DIY bottles with the ladder diffuser, somehow the bubbles were too large and much gas escaped at the top unused.
don't quite understand what you mean... i hv only one tube to one ladder. Don't see why 2 bubbles can come out at the same time. I have been running this setup for months and so far i hv got a nice series of bubbles going up the ladder, and they become so small in size near the top, reducing the buoyancy so much that the bubble moves very slowly. The bubble release rate from the tube was just right to give about 1 bubble moving in each ladder without collision. In addition, i direct the output of the internal filter at one end of tank to the top of the ladder at the other end so as to enhance the co2 absorption further.

When the rate has reduced to 1 bubble every 3~4 ladder, i will start to replenish the weaker canister. I am gradually increasing this to about 1 bubble every 5~6 ladder, monitoring the health of the plants closely. By doing this I can reach an optimum rate to sustain the plant.

btw, getting 2 entire systems [which was what i did, but only one ladder is used in tank] is an obvious solution. But one must not forget that space is precious in a 20gal tank too. Aesthetics is also an important factor to consider.
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Old 03-23-2004, 03:35 AM   #17
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I had run two tubes to one ladder, one from the Hagen canister, one from a DIY bottle below the tank. Not an ideal setup, as I explained, collisions and so on.

somewhere I got the idea that that was being discussed, two bottles, one ladder. So i just wasn't understanding.
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Old 03-24-2004, 04:13 PM   #18
eds
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Mine is like d2h's. 2 brew bottles with their outlet tubes joined by a "T", so that one tube runs into a "bubble counter" bottle 3/4 full of water. From there, 1 tube goes to my ladder.

Seems to work fine.
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Old 03-25-2004, 02:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eds
Mine is like d2h's. 2 brew bottles with their outlet tubes joined by a "T", so that one tube runs into a "bubble counter" bottle 3/4 full of water. From there, 1 tube goes to my ladder.

Seems to work fine.
it would be better if you could put a valve on each of the brew bottle outlet tube before the "T". This enable you to shut off the bottle you gonna to replenish so as to prevent the "pressure drop" and maintain the flow to your ladder from the other bottle.
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Old 03-25-2004, 02:26 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonapersona
I had run two tubes to one ladder, one from the Hagen canister, one from a DIY bottle below the tank. Not an ideal setup, as I explained, collisions and so on.

somewhere I got the idea that that was being discussed, two bottles, one ladder. So i just wasn't understanding.
one drawback i encountered about using ladder, though, is that sometimes snails get into the bubble flow path and mess it all up for a while :evil: and small fishes got trapped :x
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Old 04-03-2004, 07:33 AM   #21
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I've had some mixed results with the Hagen yeast lately. Most of the store displays that are using the Hagen packages have been rotting, or something, and smelling so bloody awful that I needed to spray Windex all around the bathroom before dumping it so I didn't heave. Might explain why some of them didn't work - bad batches? Perhaps bad trans-shipping?

Anyways, I used the same ratio as the Hagen recipe in my DIY system (pop bottle) and it works great.
Hagen uses:
4oz sugar
12oz lukewarm tap water
4oz empty air at the top
1mL yeast (I've used non-quick rise baking yeast and wine yeast)
4mL baking soda

I scaled that up to my 2L pop bottle and twice now it has bubbled consistently for over 6 weeks (!!).

I'm not a huge fan of the Hagen bubble diffuser - you still end up losing bubbles, and then clog, get snails in them, you name it..
Tetra used to make a membrane type of diffuser which was just an internal reservoir with a thin membrane to allow CO2 to escape into the water directly with ZERO waste... But no mention of it anywhere (except here: http://www.tetra.de/doc/doc_download...p;o_file_id=81 )

I'm fiddling around with somethign on my own to use that system, since I'm not big on using an additional powerhead or running it into my filter to diffuse bubbles. So far I've played around with the tube for a gravel vac and putting various things on the end without much luck. I'm thinking about trying an unlubricated condom and punching a lot of pinholes in it (I could name it "Chance"!) or maybe several, several layers of cheesecloth/nylon.
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Old 05-01-2004, 08:46 PM   #22
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I had a big supply of the Hagen mix packages, so I've been using them all up and have been fairly disappointed with the results -- maybe 1 bubble every 20 seconds-ish.

Finally tried a homemade mix (posted upthread by anonapersona) and the difference is amazing! I'm getting a bubble every 5 seconds now.

I've got two ladder/canister sets, so in the other one I'm going to try the Jell-O recipe posted in this thread by tommyboy22481. I'll let y'all know how it works out for me.
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Old 05-02-2004, 04:00 AM   #23
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I always had a problem using colored and flavored Jell-o, it just seemes wrong to me!

You can substitute Knox gelatine and save several bucks.

I use the Knox Blox recipe on the back of the Knox box, substituting water with 2 cups of sugar for the fruit juice in the recipe on the box.

I am now using the Blox, 1/3 of the full recipe, in large blocks to fit into my 2L juice box generator, with 1/4 teaspoon of bread yeast (no baking soda or yeast nutrient that I had been using occasionally). It tends to fillup my power reactor with gas up to 1/2 inch deep, so it may actually overdose small tanks. 1/4 recipe might be better, in fact, as it does foam some, didn't do that when I used 1/4 of the Blox.

Anyhow, 1/4 of the Blox will last 3+ weeks, so a $1.20 pack of Knox lasts for 12 weeks. 1/3 of the Blox still lasts 3 weeks runs faster, stops more suddenly, maybe just under 3 weeks in fact.
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Old 05-02-2004, 04:08 AM   #24
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Yeah, I wasn't comfortable with coloured/flavoured Jell-Os either, so I went with the Knox gelatin too. Used the same amount of sugar as the Hagen recipe calls for (1/2 cup), dissolved it and the Knox gelatin in boiling water, then added enough cold water to bring it up to the top level in the Hagen canister (approx. 2 cups total). It's in the fridge right now and should go on the tank tomorrow (with the yeast added, of course).
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Old 05-02-2004, 03:35 PM   #25
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Oh, that is different. Do you think the gelatine will be solid?

I've never used the gelatine blocks in the Hagen canister because I worry about foam ups. There is not much air space in teh Hagen canister and no external scrubber to catch a foam up.

Keep us informed about how it goes. If you have problems, the regular bread yeast and baking soda is pretty reliable for the Hagen units.

Have fun experimenting!
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Old 05-02-2004, 09:01 PM   #26
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I have heard that some people add a touch (pinch) of flour or so to a mixture and get an extension of production(of a mixture that is old and ready to stop)

I am going to try this.. as I have a hagen system (not completely pleased with it..but its OK...but im going to make my own systems soon.
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Old 05-02-2004, 10:31 PM   #27
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I have tried to make my own formula with 2 cups sugar in a 2liter bottle and it works great. 1/4 tpn yeast.
I have heard people dumping out part of the old solution and reusing it just adding sugar and new water. Do you shake up the old solution first or is the yeast on the bottom, and then pour some out? When I look thru the 2 liter bottle, theres nothing but sugar on the bottom so I'm assuming the yeast is suspended in the water. When I need to re-fill this bottle, I'm going to try the shake up method
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Old 05-17-2004, 04:44 AM   #28
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I am considering a couple of options. Since I have a Milwaukee PH Controller I am looking at a CO2 injection system. But I am also looking at DIY CO2.

I have the Hagen CO2 system sitting here.
What I am thinking of is ditching the ladder and using the Mini Vortex Powered Reactor in my 25g planted tank with the DIY CO2 coming in to it.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. Especially if you have used this reactor.

Another Question Can you clamp off the CO2 in a DIY system to slow down the bubbles if need be? Not stop them just reduce the flow?

Thanks
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Old 05-17-2004, 10:36 AM   #29
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[quote="nexstar"]Another Question Can you clamp off the CO2 in a DIY system to slow down the bubbles if need be? Not stop them just reduce the flow?/quote]

If you have the monetary means to go with a pressurized setup, do it, you won't be sorry. I have run both the hagen and the pressurized system and both worked well, but the pressurized is hands down a better choice. I wouldn't go back to a hagen system if someone paid me.

As for clamping off the Co2, this is probably a pretty bad idea. I wouldn't want to see what would happen if the pressure increased over time in the yeast generator, it could be a really messy/smelly situation.

Matt
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Old 05-17-2004, 01:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corigan
[If you have the monetary means to go with a pressurized setup, do it, you won't be sorry. I have run both the hagen and the pressurized system and both worked well, but the pressurized is hands down a better choice. I wouldn't go back to a hagen system if someone paid me.

As for clamping off the Co2, this is probably a pretty bad idea. I wouldn't want to see what would happen if the pressure increased over time in the yeast generator, it could be a really messy/smelly situation.

Matt
I agree.

If the aquarium is big enough to warrant the pressurized system, do it. For a 10 gallon tank, I think it is crazy to use a pressurized system, a Hagen works well enough. With over 30 gallons, pressurized is the way to go. In between, your choice, depending on your time and pocketbook. If money is not an issue, then go pressurized even for a 20 gallon tank.
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