Hagen versus homemade formula

wendyv · 02-17-2004, 03:32 PM

Hi, I was just wondering what is the difference between the Hagen co2 formula and the DIY one? Does the Hagen work better? Anyone use it in a 2 litre pop bottle?
I have never seen it in action, so I don't know. They had it on the back of a tank at the pet shop the other day but it had run out; so never got to see the ladder working on it.
Thanks for any replies.
Wendy

jojomichael · 02-17-2004, 09:11 PM

I'm using a DIY recipe in the original Hagen bottle and the bubbles come out faster into the ladder diffuser...

wendyv · 02-17-2004, 09:44 PM

Well thanks JoJo that is good to know:-). Are you getting a bubble a second with this setup? Just curious as with three 2 litre bottles and one ladder I am getting about one bubble a second to one bubble every second and a half; so I was just wondering what the canister puts out.
Thanks for any replies.
Wendy

Rolo · 02-17-2004, 10:08 PM

Jojo, what is your recipe?

jojomichael · 02-17-2004, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendyv

Well thanks JoJo that is good to know:-). Are you getting a bubble a second with this setup? Just curious as with three 2 litre bottles and one ladder I am getting about one bubble a second to one bubble every second and a half; so I was just wondering what the canister puts out.
Thanks for any replies.
Wendy

During the first week, yeah... but it's slowing down now. Maybe it's time to change the solution. After 2 weeks, it will probably be slowed down too much...

amanda huggenkiss · 03-06-2004, 07:04 PM

I've got a Hagen set-up, but I've gotten a couple of duds in the formula packages (dead yeast, I'm guessing). I've checked all the stores in my neighbourhood and all the formula they have in stock is pushing the 18 month expiry date marked on the packages.

So I'm thinking of keeping the Hagen bottles, but making my own formula. I've seen the recipes posted all over the place, but the one piece of information I never see is what kind of yeast to use? Is it regular "traditional" yeast? Or "instant" or "fast-acting" yeast?

And does anyone know the purpose of the "stabilizer" that's provided with the Hagen formula?

wendyv · 03-07-2004, 02:33 AM

Amanda, what most of the people are using from what I gather is the regular Fleishmanns and I would imagine that the "stabilizer" (my guess) is baking soda. Just a guess as I am sure that the people on these boards know more then me. The only thing I am wondering is with the small container that comes with the Hagen setup; do you add the same amount of sugar to the water; I have no idea. My recipe from these boards and others is 2 cups sugar fill the 2 litre bottle half way with hot water and shake it up real well. Add 1/2 teaspoon of yeast to a little water with a pinch of sugar in a cup and let it rise a bit. Meanwhile add cold water to the bottle almost to the line to get room temp. water; then add 1 teaspoon baking soda. When the yeast has risen a bit; rises to top of the water; add it to the bottle and add enough water to get it to the line in the bottle. Usually takes at the most about 1 hour to get it going. Works really well for about a week or so; but then the bubbles slowly decrease; so I like to make up a mixture once a week. I am thinking of going to a large pail (10 kg's) and making only up one batch instead of 3 small bottles. Guess I would have to put quite a bit of sugar into the 10 kg pail as that is like 5 bottles; since I do 2 cups per 2 litre bottle, guess I would add 10 cups of sugar to the pail; anyone know if I should also add more yeast; for ex. 2 1/2 teaspoons, and 5 teaspoons of baking soda? This is just a test; so I have no idea?
Thanks for any imput.
Wendy

anonapersona · 03-07-2004, 03:47 AM

When I refill the Hgen canister, I fill it to the line inside with sugar and then to the top line with water, then add 1/4 teaspoon fleishmans yeast, rugular I guess, and 1 teaspoon baking soda.

You can't fit 2 cups of sugar into that canister, if you did you couldn't get much water in there to go with it.

corigan · 03-07-2004, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anonapersona

When I refill the Hgen canister, I fill it to the line inside with sugar and then to the top line with water, then add 1/4 teaspoon fleishmans yeast, rugular I guess, and 1 teaspoon baking soda.

You can't fit 2 cups of sugar into that canister, if you did you couldn't get much water in there to go with it.

How fast do your bubbles come out with this setup and how long does it last for you?

ninoboy · 03-07-2004, 05:53 AM

The baking soda or stabilizer act as the buffer. The solution will become acidic overtime and will kill the yeast solution. By adding this, you'll somewhat prolong the solution's life.

I don't have much success using Fleishmann (spelling?) yeast. I did everything as told to activate the yeast first, etc. It takes long before the first bubble comes out and the production amount drops after 5-7 days. I switched to Redstar and get very good result. The first bubble comes out in 20-30 minutes or less, more pressure, constant and last much longer. (Both are regular active dry yeast and not super). It even starts well without proper yeast activation. I'm not sure whether my tap water has something to do with those results because I heard more people here use Fleishman.

anonapersona · 03-07-2004, 02:54 PM

start at maybe 6 to 10 bubbles a minute, then I change it at about 3 weeks.

d2hpeter · 03-17-2004, 09:48 AM

I have 2 hagen canisters supplying one ladder in my tank, to minimize the fluctuation of co2 during replenishing. Each canister has a valve controlling its output. The sequence of replenisment is such that when one get refilled the other is at the max reaction rate. I would shut off the valve of the one being refilled so as not to disturb the flow.
I am thinking of adding one more canister to boost the output.

wendyv · 03-17-2004, 03:32 PM

Hi d2hpeter; your name is probably peter I presume:-), how big is your tank that you added the two canisters system to? I was just wondering if you added the two canisters to the one ladder and had them going at the same time if you would get more bubbles using the two going at the same rate as the one? Just a curiosity. Sounds like a smart idea though to have them going at different replenishment rates.

d2hpeter · 03-18-2004, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wendyv

Hi d2hpeter; your name is probably peter I presume:-), how big is your tank that you added the two canisters system to? I was just wondering if you added the two canisters to the one ladder and had them going at the same time if you would get more bubbles using the two going at the same rate as the one? Just a curiosity. Sounds like a smart idea though to have them going at different replenishment rates.

mine is a 2ft tank.
by the law of conservation :idea: the flowrate should increase, though not necessarily doubled. The main objective is to "smooth" the fluctuation in the co2 flow. There would be a period of zero flow following replenishment if only one canister is used.
But of course, one could really boost up the flow by connecting more canisters or have a bigger capacity reactor. The issue is how to balance flowrate and the degree of fluctuation, i think.

anonapersona · 03-20-2004, 07:37 PM

If you run two canisters into the same diffuser, as the rates decline you will eventually get two bubbles put out at the same time. They will collide, turning into a big bubble, then race to the top smashing and absorbing all bubbles in their path. Most of the gas escapes at the surface. The ladder diffuser is cheap, get two, or get two entire systems.

IME, I was not happy with mixing DIY bottles with the ladder diffuser, somehow the bubbles were too large and much gas escaped at the top unused.

If your tank is near 30 gallons, go on and make or buy a power diffuser and go DIY for the whole thing. Really the first thing to do is to look at your filtration to see if that is causing CO2 to escape. Changing to a canister filter or somehow reducing surface disturbance can make a big difference in CO2 retention.

02-17-2004, 09:11 PM	#2
jojomichael Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (1/100%) Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: California Posts: 94	I'm using a DIY recipe in the original Hagen bottle and the bubbles come out faster into the ladder diffuser... __________________ 10 Gallon Endler's Tank

02-17-2004, 10:08 PM	#4
Rolo Wannabe Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (4/100%) Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Twin Cities, Minnesota Posts: 1,716	Jojo, what is your recipe? __________________

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02-17-2004, 03:32 PM	#1
wendyv Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 63	Hi, I was just wondering what is the difference between the Hagen co2 formula and the DIY one? Does the Hagen work better? Anyone use it in a 2 litre pop bottle? I have never seen it in action, so I don't know. They had it on the back of a tank at the pet shop the other day but it had run out; so never got to see the ladder working on it. Thanks for any replies. Wendy

02-17-2004, 09:44 PM	#3
wendyv Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 63	Well thanks JoJo that is good to know:-). Are you getting a bubble a second with this setup? Just curious as with three 2 litre bottles and one ladder I am getting about one bubble a second to one bubble every second and a half; so I was just wondering what the canister puts out. Thanks for any replies. Wendy

03-06-2004, 07:04 PM	#6
amanda huggenkiss Planted Tank Enthusiast (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 955	I've got a Hagen set-up, but I've gotten a couple of duds in the formula packages (dead yeast, I'm guessing). I've checked all the stores in my neighbourhood and all the formula they have in stock is pushing the 18 month expiry date marked on the packages. So I'm thinking of keeping the Hagen bottles, but making my own formula. I've seen the recipes posted all over the place, but the one piece of information I never see is what kind of yeast to use? Is it regular "traditional" yeast? Or "instant" or "fast-acting" yeast? And does anyone know the purpose of the "stabilizer" that's provided with the Hagen formula?

03-07-2004, 02:33 AM	#7
wendyv Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 63	Amanda, what most of the people are using from what I gather is the regular Fleishmanns and I would imagine that the "stabilizer" (my guess) is baking soda. Just a guess as I am sure that the people on these boards know more then me. The only thing I am wondering is with the small container that comes with the Hagen setup; do you add the same amount of sugar to the water; I have no idea. My recipe from these boards and others is 2 cups sugar fill the 2 litre bottle half way with hot water and shake it up real well. Add 1/2 teaspoon of yeast to a little water with a pinch of sugar in a cup and let it rise a bit. Meanwhile add cold water to the bottle almost to the line to get room temp. water; then add 1 teaspoon baking soda. When the yeast has risen a bit; rises to top of the water; add it to the bottle and add enough water to get it to the line in the bottle. Usually takes at the most about 1 hour to get it going. Works really well for about a week or so; but then the bubbles slowly decrease; so I like to make up a mixture once a week. I am thinking of going to a large pail (10 kg's) and making only up one batch instead of 3 small bottles. Guess I would have to put quite a bit of sugar into the 10 kg pail as that is like 5 bottles; since I do 2 cups per 2 litre bottle, guess I would add 10 cups of sugar to the pail; anyone know if I should also add more yeast; for ex. 2 1/2 teaspoons, and 5 teaspoons of baking soda? This is just a test; so I have no idea? Thanks for any imput. Wendy

03-07-2004, 03:47 AM	#8
anonapersona Wannabe Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,614	When I refill the Hgen canister, I fill it to the line inside with sugar and then to the top line with water, then add 1/4 teaspoon fleishmans yeast, rugular I guess, and 1 teaspoon baking soda. You can't fit 2 cups of sugar into that canister, if you did you couldn't get much water in there to go with it.

03-07-2004, 05:53 AM	#10
ninoboy Wannabe Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Las Vegas , Nevada Posts: 1,261	The baking soda or stabilizer act as the buffer. The solution will become acidic overtime and will kill the yeast solution. By adding this, you'll somewhat prolong the solution's life. I don't have much success using Fleishmann (spelling?) yeast. I did everything as told to activate the yeast first, etc. It takes long before the first bubble comes out and the production amount drops after 5-7 days. I switched to Redstar and get very good result. The first bubble comes out in 20-30 minutes or less, more pressure, constant and last much longer. (Both are regular active dry yeast and not super). It even starts well without proper yeast activation. I'm not sure whether my tap water has something to do with those results because I heard more people here use Fleishman.

03-07-2004, 02:54 PM	#11
anonapersona Wannabe Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,614	start at maybe 6 to 10 bubbles a minute, then I change it at about 3 weeks.

03-17-2004, 09:48 AM	#12
d2hpeter Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: singapore Posts: 13	I have 2 hagen canisters supplying one ladder in my tank, to minimize the fluctuation of co2 during replenishing. Each canister has a valve controlling its output. The sequence of replenisment is such that when one get refilled the other is at the max reaction rate. I would shut off the valve of the one being refilled so as not to disturb the flow. I am thinking of adding one more canister to boost the output.

03-17-2004, 03:32 PM	#13
wendyv Algae Grower (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 63	Hi d2hpeter; your name is probably peter I presume:-), how big is your tank that you added the two canisters system to? I was just wondering if you added the two canisters to the one ladder and had them going at the same time if you would get more bubbles using the two going at the same rate as the one? Just a curiosity. Sounds like a smart idea though to have them going at different replenishment rates.

03-20-2004, 07:37 PM	#15
anonapersona Wannabe Guru (View User Tanks) PTrader: (0/0%) Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,614	If you run two canisters into the same diffuser, as the rates decline you will eventually get two bubbles put out at the same time. They will collide, turning into a big bubble, then race to the top smashing and absorbing all bubbles in their path. Most of the gas escapes at the surface. The ladder diffuser is cheap, get two, or get two entire systems. IME, I was not happy with mixing DIY bottles with the ladder diffuser, somehow the bubbles were too large and much gas escaped at the top unused. If your tank is near 30 gallons, go on and make or buy a power diffuser and go DIY for the whole thing. Really the first thing to do is to look at your filtration to see if that is causing CO2 to escape. Changing to a canister filter or somehow reducing surface disturbance can make a big difference in CO2 retention.