Dose dry or make solution? Please help!!!

[PRESTON4479]

I am new to dosing dry ferts and need some advice. I have ordered and received Rex's combo pack. Also ordered some 473ml (16oz) bottles.

If I am going to make 473ml solutions out of these ferts how much should I use?

Also is it better to use RO water to make the solutions?

What dosing schedule would recommended for a 55 gallon tank? The only schedule I saw on the forum was for dosing dry ferts directly into the tank.

Also I'm confused? It seems some people use test kits and others don't. Do I need them or not?

Please help me get started. I understand everyones tank is different and would just like a good starting point so I can get a handle on it.

Thanks----Brian

[bigstick120]

Any reason why you want to make solutions and not just dose dry? Save yourself some work and just dose dry. It makes no difference. There is a stickie in the water params section to get you started

[PRESTON4479]

I thought it would be easier to make solutions. But if dosing dry is easier then I will do that.

When I dose dry should I dissolve it in a glass of RO water or is it ok to just toss into the tank?

Also do I really need all the test kits?

Thanks----Brian

[mistergreen]

it's easier for me to dose by making a solution... I just have one bottle to deal with instead of 3-4 different dry chemicals containers.

It's all the same really.

[Nbot]

read this thread, in it is the link to Tom Barr's EI method and why testing isn't needed...the 'why'
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/ge...dry-ferts.html

as for dry ferts, myself and others just do 3 scoops of the different dry ferts into a coffee cup, stir it up for 20 seconds or so, then toss it in, some of our fish like to eat the ferts as they fall down so I guess we'd rather them not..just use a coffee cup your wife won't be upset you donated to the cause.

Or I suppose you can just make a "dry pre-mix" of the different ferts, so you only have to measure out 'one' 2tsp or whatever it works out to everynight instead of 3 different measurements.

The trace minerals, those get mixed into a liquid solution (2tsp per cup??), then you dose 10ml (or whatever) of that liquid solution on the days you don't do the dry ferts, if you dose the micros and macros together two of them bond into something you don't want to be inputting...I use a old Kent's micro or StressCoat bottle for the trace/liquid b/c the cap has a 10ml measurement on it...

[PRESTON4479]

Right now I'm doing 2-3 50% water changes a week.

Should I stop doing this many and only do 1 a week?

Also after the water change is done do you add any nutrients at that time or just stick to the schedule and start again on monday?

Thanks everyone for your help.

[Nbot]

Did you read the article on EI from Tom Barr that from the link above? Normally 1x week is all you need, and most people do their first day of dosing same day as the water change...

[spypet]

I have better piece of mind dosing a wet solution from my dry ferts.
I get nervous when fish, especially bottom feeders nose around the
crystals thinking they might be food. I measure and mix my power
at the last minute in a pickle jar with warm water. I often want to
modify the macro's and salt I add, so I prefer to blend last minute.
organizing powders in separate salsa and gefilta fish jars is best as
these are wide mouth 16oz and 24oz glass jars with metal caps
that make it easy to get your measuring spoons in without spills.

[PRESTON4479]

Originally Posted by Nbot

Did you read the article on EI from Tom Barr that from the link above? Normally 1x week is all you need, and most people do their first day of dosing same day as the water change...

I am sorry but I did not have the time to read it last night. Actually that has been alot of the problem. I just haven't had the time needed to really sit down and figure this out. I do HVAC for a living and right now its hot in Delaware But I am going to follow everyones advice and start with this:

Tank's (2)
40~60gal
50%H20 change-weekly
+/-1/2Tsp-KN03 3x a week
+/-1/8Tsp-KH2P04 3x a week
+/-1/8Tsp-K2S04 3x a week
+/-10ml or 1/8Tsp-Trace 3x a week
+/-2-4ml-Fe/Iron 3x a week

Sunday-----Day1)Prune,Preen,Clean glass inside, 50% or more H20 change, vac/sub, 1/2Tsp-KN03, 1/8-ish/Tsp-KH2P04,1/8Tsp-K2S04, clean glass on outside.
Monday-----Day2) 10ml Trace, 2ml-Fe
Tuesday----Day3) 1/2Tsp-KN03, 1/8ish/Tsp-KH2P04,1/8Tsp-K2S04.
Wednesday-Day4) See day2
Thursday---Day5) See day3
Friday------Day6) See day2
Saturday---Day7) Nothing or prune, or walk the dog, or carry the misses out, or all the above... you get the idea.
Sunday-----Day8) See day1


Although I may start by leaving out the KNO3 due to my tank having a high bio load. Normally nitrates are a little high. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks---Brian

[PRESTON4479]

Originally Posted by PRESTON4479

I am sorry but I did not have the time to read it last night. Actually that has been alot of the problem. I just haven't had the time needed to really sit down and figure this out. I do HVAC for a living and right now its hot in Delaware But I am going to follow everyones advice and start with this:

Tank's (2)
40~60gal
50%H20 change-weekly
+/-1/2Tsp-KN03 3x a week
+/-1/8Tsp-KH2P04 3x a week
+/-1/8Tsp-K2S04 3x a week
+/-10ml or 1/8Tsp-Trace 3x a week
+/-2-4ml-Fe/Iron 3x a week

Sunday-----Day1)Prune,Preen,Clean glass inside, 50% or more H20 change, vac/sub, 1/2Tsp-KN03, 1/8-ish/Tsp-KH2P04,1/8Tsp-K2S04, clean glass on outside.
Monday-----Day2) 10ml Trace, 2ml-Fe
Tuesday----Day3) 1/2Tsp-KN03, 1/8ish/Tsp-KH2P04,1/8Tsp-K2S04.
Wednesday-Day4) See day2
Thursday---Day5) See day3
Friday------Day6) See day2
Saturday---Day7) Nothing or prune, or walk the dog, or carry the misses out, or all the above... you get the idea.
Sunday-----Day8) See day1


Although I may start by leaving out the KNO3 due to my tank having a high bio load. Normally nitrates are a little high. Any thoughts on this?

Thanks---Brian

Bump,Bump?? any thoughts???

[EdTheEdge]

Nitrate can go very/extremely high in a planted tank with CO2 and good lighting. I'm sure I overdose on KNO3 in my tanks and haven't had any problems.

I mix my chemicals into solution and dose via bown bottles with eye droppers. It's simple each eyedropper holds about 15 drops.

I also use KCL instead of K2SO4. No particular reason. I think I got a good price on it a long time ago.

HTH

[plantbrain]

So things are looking fine?
You are doing 2-3x a week 50% water changes?
You cannot over do water changes really, it's more of a labor hassle etc.
I suggest doing them more frequently with high fish loads or if you have an issue such as algae.

As far as dosing solutions vs dry, whatever suits your routine is best.
Main thing is to be consistent.

Telling folks to add 7.500 grams of KNO3 to 500mls of DI water and add this at 75 ls per day for 7 days etc sounds a lot worse to the average Joe vs add 1/2 teaspoon 3x a week.

Few have scales sitting around, most have teaspoons etc.
But dividing the dosing into 7 equal days vs 3x a week etc may have some subtle effects, but folks can modify to suit their routines.

So say dose a stock solution of KNO3 at 10 mls daily or 3x a week, vs adding say 1/4 taspoon daily or 3x a week.

the total added for both methods is still the same, but how you do it may or may not be easier for you.

EI was never meant to viewed as rigidly as many have recently made it out to be. It's meant to be less confusing and for folks without access to test kits or scales, it really helps a lot.

Many planted hobbyists will never use test kits, nor use a scale and make stock solutions. So I decided to work around those issues to help them.

About your tank, what is the lighting? Do you add CO2?
Tell me those and I can giev you a routine that will get you started.
Main thing is you have a high bioload, you will do more water changes. Bank on that or else reduce the bioload.
If it's pretty high, you will likely be fine with say 1/4 teaspoon KNO3 3x a week or add 2 table spoons of KNO3 to 500mls of DI water and dose 20mls 3x a week.

Also add 2 teaspoon of KH2PO4 to the KNO3 solution.

That will address both PO4/K/NO3.

You can dose KH2PO4 dry if you wish also, say add 1/8th teaspoon 3x a week.

Up to you.

These dosings assume good CO2 and moderate light.
I'd suggest a 2x 54w T5 light for such a tank, see the ADA tank thread with 1.5 w/gal posted here.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[PRESTON4479]

Originally Posted by plantbrain

So things are looking fine?

You are doing 2-3x a week 50% water changes?

About your tank, what is the lighting? Do you add CO2?
Tell me those and I can giev you a routine that will get you started.


Regards,
Tom Barr

Hi Tom,

Let me start by saying its an honor to be speaking with you and thanks for all your contributions to the planted tank world.

Yes, I was doing 2-3 50% water changes a week. The plants responded very well to this and would start bubbling right after the water change. But now that I am learning more I now realize that my high nitrates may have been cause by the kent proplant and kent freshwater plant I was adding daily. I wasn't really following a schedule. I am now going to start following a schedule and start off dosing dry doing one 50% water change a week. I will follow my nitrate levels closely. My nitrates were about 15ppm after a water change on monday. If they stay at this level I will start the no3 into my schedule. Does that sound like a good idea or should I go ahead and start it anyway?

I have a 260 watt coralife pc. I run 130 watts for 12 hours with a full 260 watt mid day burst for 4 hours. For co2 I am using a pressurized red sea deluxe co2 kit for paintball bottles.

Also should I be testing my GH and KH levels? If so what should they be?

Thanks---Brian

[plantbrain]

I'm just a schmoe growing plants, not need to honor.
I've never had any issue whether someone wants to make a stock solution or not.

That's up to you and there's no real arguement other than personal habits etc.
You may take 2-4 weeks worth of EI, toss it into a bottle with some DI water, then dose that divided by 14-28 days if you want to dose daily.

I generally suggest solutions for daily dosers.
I suggest dry dosing for 3x a week dosers.

Some want more precision, so the stock solutions give you that option.
Some howl, spread fear and doom to others about these differences, which to put it quite bluntly, it plain outright rubbish.

Plants are pretty flexible, so are fish.
You are not going to make significant gains either way.

But you should try and tweak things a little bit, this is a starting point and you move from there. It was never intended nor stated it was to be followed
rigidly.

If the plants do not bubble much after the second day after the water change, you might not have enough CO2. See if you can get that same growth without a water change(CO2).

You have a lot of light. Be careful and reduce this to 10 hours for 130 w, maybe a 3-4 hour midday burst at most.

Focus heavily on the CO2, provide good surface movement, you can always add more CO2 gas to make up for any loss there and this will reduce the stress on fish.

You may keep up with the more frequent water changes if you chose.
But they are not required.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[PRESTON4479]

Originally Posted by plantbrain

But you should try and tweak things a little bit, this is a starting point and you move from there. It was never intended nor stated it was to be followed
rigidly.

If the plants do not bubble much after the second day after the water change, you might not have enough CO2. See if you can get that same growth without a water change(CO2).

You have a lot of light. Be careful and reduce this to 10 hours for 130 w, maybe a 3-4 hour midday burst at most.

Focus heavily on the CO2, provide good surface movement, you can always add more CO2 gas to make up for any loss there and this will reduce the stress on fish.

You may keep up with the more frequent water changes if you chose.
But they are not required.

Regards,
Tom Barr

Alright I reset the light timers according to what you said. I will try 130 watts for 10 hours and 260 watt mid day burst for 4 hours. Also I will angle the spray bars up a little further to ensure good surface movement. I will try turning the co2 up because I do have a problem with the plants not bubbling the day after the water change.

Also please tell me if you think considering my light, pressurized co2, and heavily planted tank if I will need to increase the amount of nutrients I am currently dosing? Based on the schedule I posted above.

Thanks---Brian