350 gallon EI example and fish health - Page 3
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > General Planted Tank Forums > Tank Journals


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-08-2009, 05:13 PM   #31
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (258/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Edwards View Post
Tom,

That's awesome in all senses of the word. I very much like how you've packed the tank with fish. It's good to see a successful planted aquarium instead of another plant tank with a few fish.


~Phil
You mean the same fish that have been there for the last 4 years?

I'll likely remove the rummies, Roselines, etc and add all cardinals and keep the more cryptic fishes.

The Crypt green gecko should fill in good later like this old pic:



The tank has not settled down yet, and started growing and I typically only see it after all night and the first light. After cleaning it good etc, it's hazy.
I do not have the ability to bring in nice cameras, tripods etc and there's very little light. Fish are all washed out colorwise also. About the worst time of day for pics.

I'll see about a small video camera.

Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 12-08-2009, 09:40 PM   #32
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (258/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Church View Post
Wow, this is an awesome thread! And great tank, as usual, Tom. Pardon my ignorance, but can you explain the reverse light switch to me? (I've never heard of that before).
The Reverse light switch is a relay, it simply turns off one part and switches on another, so there's continuous power, it just turns one on, the other off.
The same type of relay is used for many wave makers, other lighting switches, solenoid/aeration timers and you can come up with a dozens of uses in aquariums.



I'd like to see how well the Crypts fill in and do the next few months.

Not easy to take a decent photo here, white brite sand, low light makes it tougher. Gotta do a video at some point.

Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 10:26 PM   #33
SearunSimpson
Wannabe Guru
 
SearunSimpson's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tsawwassen, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,419
Default

Tom, that tank is sick! We're not worthy, we're not worthy!

I've been thinking of a set up like this for quite some time, but could never really see the image as anything more than in my mind- until I came across this thread.

Spot-on Tom.
__________________

"You think you have tomorrow, but when tomorrow comes it's not tomorrow; it's now- and that's all you have" - Marc Johnson
Ehei-Pimpfen 276 yo!
SearunSimpson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-08-2009, 11:08 PM   #34
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (258/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,468
Default

Many Japanese gardens use a light color sand foreground type and then ADA modeled the idea from that, however, this tank has no ADA As in the sediment, it's just plain old sand. So it's got some of the white sand foreground design, but not too much else.

Crypts are pretty tough and can handle the plecos and large catfish that you cannot quite see lurking in the shadows.

With the fish loads, you cannot keep a bunch of delicate stem plants. This is actually looks better on any given day and is much easier to care for.
I can add less CO2/light and crank up the flows more.

Most seem more than willing to accept some really wimpy fish choices to balance their plant desires, whereas few seem to balance the fish choice with the plant choice on equal terms often times.

Many scape first, then add fish later to suit the scape.
I generally do not do this.

Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 12:26 AM   #35
DavidZ
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
DavidZ's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY,NY
Posts: 664
Default

wow
unreal!!!!
DavidZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 12:46 AM   #36
cah925
Fear the Swamp!
 
cah925's Avatar
 
PTrader: (173/100%)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Riverview, FL
Posts: 2,504
Default

I really like the mass of needle leaf fern and I'm considering doing something very similar in my next scape. I'd like to know how you arrange the hardscape to get that kind of growth. Do you have a mass of sticks to support it or just one large stump piece that it all grows on?
cah925 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 03:14 AM   #37
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (258/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,468
Default

Several good sized branchy pieces of Redwood root systems.
One older piece is sitting at AFA in SF actually I saw it Sunday. I gave it to Steve and George.

Same thing with several tanks I've done, basically build a good size fan or limbs to add fern to, or moss etc.

You can still see the fish swimming in the wood under the plants, and they have a nice place to live. If it was all plants, then you do not see them.

The large open 12" wide front makes a nice place for high current and mixing, good place for swimming/fish exercise. This way the fish eat much better, and like us, live longer healthier lives. They can rest any time under the wood still.

This scape was designed more around the fish than the plants.

Many fish only hobbyist like this type of design since it does not add "too many plants" for many of their non initiated taste.
It pushed most of the schooling fish up front also, still lets you see the fish in the shadows etc.

Most of the fish are from 4 years ago, all the rummies/dojos/plecos are, Cards and few others where added later.

This is 2 years ago:




Still, after several years, fish are doing very well.
Both fish and plants have been in here for a pretty long, reasonable amount of time to see any issues.

I still get Ostrich club folks making claims about some NO3 levels being bad for fish.
It's been clearly demonstrated beyond any doubt that the dosing plant ferts even at rich levels poses no long term effects/stress on fish.
This is hardly the first time.

Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 03:20 AM   #38
cah925
Fear the Swamp!
 
cah925's Avatar
 
PTrader: (173/100%)
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Riverview, FL
Posts: 2,504
Default

Thanks for the advice.
cah925 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2009, 05:21 PM   #39
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (258/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,468
Default

Another view is looking at the wood, plants, like live rock and corals.
The wood has massive surface area, plants grow on top of that in a nice reef wall effect.

Plants are much better since they directly remove the N in both forms, P(corals and bacteria will not do that for you) and the light use efficiency is much higher.

Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 09:06 PM   #40
Frenchie
Algae Grower
 
Frenchie's Avatar
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Urbana, IL
Posts: 45
Default

Tom, could you explain how the high fish load is accommodated? Is it offset by the high plant load and high percentage water changes, or is there some other secret I'm missing?
Frenchie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2009, 10:02 PM   #41
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (258/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frenchie View Post
Tom, could you explain how the high fish load is accommodated? Is it offset by the high plant load and high percentage water changes, or is there some other secret I'm missing?
No, the high fish load is just part of the deal. Larger fish knock plants around, you cannot grow some species since they attack and maul delicate species, or fine rooted foreground plants.

I do the same water change routine I do for aquariums without fish or lower bioloads. Main thing is feeding them good/consistently, watching them and how they are doing.

A weekly 50% water change is fair good routine for fish only tank with a good bioload anyways. Discus folks often do 50% 2x a week.
No one poo poo's Discus folks for "wasting water" when they do that however Nor are folks poo pooed when adding lots of light which is mostly "wasted".

This aquarium has well water and the entire site has recharge ground water into a basin, so it's not wasted nor a significant issue. they also do all organic sustainable methods for the landscaping, and compost virtually everything and now have a veggie and herb garden on site. The water change valves are very simple to use and the folks there can do a water change if required easily.

Unfortunately, there's no way to use the pond/lake water for the irrigation supply system without redoing the entire system, that would be ideal.

Next week I should be able to add some more up grades and get some of the plumbing work done, new bulb for the UV etc.

Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 07:08 PM   #42
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (258/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,468
Default

I found some small 1/2" red farowella fry yesterday in this aquarium.

So breeding some rather rare L no# plecos is occurring in this tank.

http://www.hippocampus-bildarchiv.co...mbs/S81787.jpg

I only got one of them out, and placed it in a net container.

http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog...species_id=747

Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 09:44 PM   #43
SearunSimpson
Wannabe Guru
 
SearunSimpson's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Tsawwassen, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,419
Default

Thats awesome tom!
How many did you end up finding? You think there's probably more in there you just werent able to see?
__________________

"You think you have tomorrow, but when tomorrow comes it's not tomorrow; it's now- and that's all you have" - Marc Johnson
Ehei-Pimpfen 276 yo!
SearunSimpson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-29-2009, 11:20 PM   #44
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (258/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SearunSimpson View Post
Thats awesome tom!
How many did you end up finding? You think there's probably more in there you just werent able to see?
Likely a dozen or so, just cannot catch them in a packed 350 Gal tank.

Not worth while really.

Still, people heehaw about toxicity and fish with respect to EI dosing, and yet I've bred dozens of hard to keep and not so hard to keep species over time.

Speculation and fear seem much more common than common sense and demonstrating whether there is any real issue or not. This is clear evidence that it's not the nutrients, dosing, plants, etc.

Perhaps other folks are not doing something right?
I have no clue, but.........if you cannot do it right to BEGIN with and breed the fish, then you have no way to offer a control to test

You cannot say anything, all you have is fear/speculation, myths.
I counter those by showing examples, over decades now....of nice examples where it illustrates the facts and observations, not the speculation and fear.

And I will keep doing this till folks start to let go of their myths.



Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-30-2009, 03:03 PM   #45
non_compliance
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 632
Default

Sorry for being slow, what is EI?


Tank is wonderful btw...
__________________

My tank journals 65 Gallon Long & 33 gal
non_compliance is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012