350 gallon EI example and fish health
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > General Planted Tank Forums > Tank Journals


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-11-2007, 04:15 AM   #1
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (256/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,381
Default

350 gallon EI example and fish health


Well, seems all anyone cares about are photo's so here's a tank I've done for a client that's been up and running about 2.5 years now using plain old EI, high fish load and relatively slow growers. Fish health is impeccable and Cardinals, Rummy noses, Emperor tetras, 10 different rare plecos species/3 other cats, otto cats, Corys, Rose line barbs, Large Silver hatchets, Noemacilius botia, gold dojo have been gowing and eating well for some time now.

This tank had a dosing fertilizer unit on it, but the folks there dose 2x a week and feed well, I feed and dose once a week, works pretty well.

The glass has never had any algae issues, some BBA appeared initially, adding more CO2 addressed that. There are about 900 fish in here. 500 Cards and 250 Rummy noses, 50 Emperor tetras, 5 newly added Rose line barbs(look like the rummy's for now till they grow). Plain flourite substrate. I used the green geko crypts in the front because on the larger plecos knocking most other plants loose there(it';s the only things that's survived their onslaught). There are 4 A. adonis black satan plecos in here that do extremely well as well as several awesome species of pleco(4 mango, 2 vampire, 4 P leopardus, 2 S aureum, 3 peppermint, 5 S multipunctatus, 2 long fin bushy nose, 4 Gold nugget, 4 gold spot, 4 P pulcher, several others that escape me). There are 40 Cory Panda and 6 C. adlofi. 3 Large SAE's I cannot catch or kill (yet).


The wood is alder and mazanita, the rock is the grey suiko rock from China. Wet dry filter, 1 large Ehiem canister filter, 2xCO2 reactors fed directly into the return pump. One intake in an overflow, one at about gravel level.
Water change:50-70% weekly. GH: 8, KH 5.
CO2 about 8 bubbles a second.

NO3: about 25ppm before water change. PO4 about 2ppm before water change , K+ about 30ppm before water change.








Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 04-11-2007, 04:19 AM   #2
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (256/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,381
Default



More
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 04:20 AM   #3
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (256/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,381
Default







More
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 04:37 AM   #4
Betowess
Planted Tank Guru
 
Betowess's Avatar
 
PTrader: (27/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Skagit County, Washington State
Posts: 3,199
Default

Wow, what a tremendous treat to my eyes. Loving it!!
Is that one of the un catchable SAE in the first photo on bottom right. Man, I spent hours once trying to catch three of those fast hogs in a heavily planted 90!
__________________




Three Tanks...Eheim 2128 & XP3-90G, Eheim 2128-65G, Eheim 2232-25G.... Tek 4x54 watt T5-90G, Aqualight 96watt PC 65G low tech, 65 watt Aqualight-25G.... Hydors-90G & 65G ... Flourite in 90, 65, & 25 Gallons, .... Auto Water Change/Auto dosing on 90 & 65 gallon..... AGA member......
Betowess is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 04:40 AM   #5
danepatrick
Wannabe Guru
 
danepatrick's Avatar
 
PTrader: (46/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: baton rouge, la
Posts: 1,394
Send a message via AIM to danepatrick
Default

__________________
"Some of the worst things imaginable have been done with the best intentions." - Jurassic Park
danepatrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 04:41 AM   #6
Jdinh04
Planted Tank Guru
 
Jdinh04's Avatar
 
PTrader: (85/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: East Lansing, MI
Posts: 2,667
Default

Look at the growth on that tank! Amazing Tom ... would love to see it in person some day. That foreground with the Green Gecko crypts is a hit, I like it.

Could you give us a full plant list? how long are the lights on for?
Jdinh04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 04:44 AM   #7
vollphann
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (11/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nashville Area
Posts: 132
Default

I know I'll take some major heat for this, as I'm only 2yrs into planted tanks,(yes, here's the but) but the small fish overwhelm the big tank. I know that sounds stupid, but I had a hard time getting past the rummy noses and the patriotic cardinals(both species I love). The tank is beautiful but my other thought, completely off the cuff is that the tank looks much smaller than it is due to the massive plantings in the middle and right of the pic. Please, don't misunderstand me. I really like the design, but certain things just don't seem to flow, but then I've been accused of a high bioload much, much lower on the inches/gallon scale than this tank, and I know my load is appropriate to my fishes needs. Beautiful tank and fish. Sorry if this sounded stupid, Ben
vollphann is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 05:44 AM   #8
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (256/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,381
Default

The smaller fish draw your eye to the tank much more, there are large fish in here. If you have seen full grown adult A adonis, then you'll know. The larger fish are more cryptic, thus you get a more mysterious experience.

The goal in many of my tanks are much less a photogenic tank, more a community that works well together. If I wanted to do a show case, I'd do a simpler design and add one or two species.

I've done both, but this is what I prefer personally and in person, few would argue, but from a photo perspective, it does not show the reality of the impression.

Adding a large fish would make the tank look much smaller, but perhaps more photogenic. There is a lot more space in the tank than what is shown due to shadows and caves under the wood and rocks. About 4sq ft are caves that you can peer into to see the larger cryptic fish.

The other thing, I do not take pictures of tanks after I just spend 2 hours uprooting, pruning and cleaning. This is maintenance tank and I cannot come and prep for the photo shot, the tank is overgrown because it's not been trimmed for a week.

This is the type of tank the client wanted and that's what he gets.
The tank is easy to care for, has a high bioload, lots of different things going on, and stable as it gets.

Here's a pic from 2 years ago



Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 06:08 AM   #9
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (256/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdinh04 View Post
Look at the growth on that tank! Amazing Tom ... would love to see it in person some day. That foreground with the Green Gecko crypts is a hit, I like it.

Could you give us a full plant list? how long are the lights on for?
I have to hack the weeds back every week to keep the geko getting enough light. I'm pretty vicious with pruning. I'm just happy something grows there due to those pleco's and corys. I'd tried the Lobelia but they keep mauling it. Same with Elatine, Gloss, moss, algae balls, some dwarf new Hygro foreground plant.
I might try the U grammifolia. But this is fine also.

Lights are on about 10-12 hours a day, 8x55w 8800K and 6500K iwaski MH's (4x 150W). So about 3w/gal.

Plant list:
Lace plant.
C calamistratum
C helferi
Anubias coffeefiolia
A barteri
A nana
C Red wendtii
C spiralis
C undulatus
C green geko
C green wendtii
C balssii
Gaint hygro
L aromatica
R indica
Ech. urugayensis
Myriophyllum matogrossense green
Narrow left Java fern
Bolbitus
Moss, cannot get rid of it
Riccia, same as moss

Note, there is a lot of current in the tank and the other side is blasted(the left side), you cannot see this, but I'm going to cork the over flow on the left and have added some Anubias branches going up and will cover the back wall with that.

There are a lot of fish in here, and hiding them is a trick. They never all come out except once in the blue moon or when feed. These balls of fish run in and out of your field of view. These fish all bite me(tasty arm hairs) when I' work on the tank and are tame. They also stay in their prospective groups well except when feeding. Everybody has their little section of turf. As it should be.

The other problem with getting photos and the balance of the layout: you cannot see 2ft of the front of the tank. The side view is available, but not the full front view. the client is considering a 450 gal (+removing that 2ft blockage). When seen in person, you get a different feel for the layout due to this blockage. Yea, it does not make sense to me either. Makes that corner and bear to get to.


Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 06:35 AM   #10
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (256/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vollphann View Post
but I had a hard time getting past the rummy noses and the patriotic cardinals(both species I love).
Yep, they are like flies in here.
But that's what they liked and wanted. I sort of agree with you though.
They are nice easy schooling fish, how many tanks do you see 500cardinals in? You can count those on one hand..............250 rummys? Same thing. Looks a lot nicer to me than 12 discus etc, who hasn't seen that

Just because someone has 2 years in does not mean they are less than some clown that's got 50 years in and has been doing shoddy methods/work etc the entire time. I know plenty that have been doing things for the wrong reasons for 20 years. James won the AGA contest with 8 months in the hobby and he used EI.

Quote:
The tank is beautiful but my other thought, completely off the cuff is that the tank looks much smaller than it is due to the massive plantings in the middle and right of the pic.
Again, the client wants a denser jungle feel. They had planned for a hair grass field and some smooth stones etc and just Rose line barbs. But that was changed. You cannot see the other 2ft on the right side due to that pesky panel being in the way of the tank view, I have no idea why they did it that way, the client is considering adding a 440 gal and removing that section hopefully. But they like things the way they are and until he gives the okay, it shall remain.

I'd like the extra height personally and chance to redo everything from the ground up.

Quote:
Please, don't misunderstand me. I really like the design, but certain things just don't seem to flow, but then I've been accused of a high bioload much, much lower on the inches/gallon scale than this tank, and I know my load is appropriate to my fishes needs. Beautiful tank and fish. Sorry if this sounded stupid, Ben
Actually you are quite right, but it's still a feast for the eyes in person.
One of the main points of my post is not for scaping, it is to highlight how easy a large tank using high light and CO2 with high sensitive fish bioloads are with basic EI after several years. I change things slowly, that way I have some response to what the client wants. I'm hired, this is not my personal tank.

So I do what they want, not what I want.
They like things after they grow in and often do not want to rip things part and redo them. I would love to rip the other side down more and leave some more space, but they want the jungle look. I had some nice mossy branches and more openess in the design for a time, but those plecos maw the moss off the wood. I'm trying the Anbuias branches on one side and will change that back to that design perhaps. I also just had some left over rocks which is the set in here. I saved the nicve groups of rocks for a 180 gal personal aggressive tank I have planned. I have the fish for it, just not the space till I move(Whimple piranha/P leopardus/Black Ghost knife/C compressiceps/A adonis, Vampire pleco). I also have a 225 gal for a community tank, fewer species, but a larger community rather than a high lighted population. I like populations that work well together and into distinct zones that "ball" well together.

Photos seldom show this behavior.
I'm not trying to win contest, I honestly do not care that much about my designs for that, I'm doing this for myself or for a client, not to impress you or anyone else.

I know what I like and prefer.
Many "fish only" folks see planted tanks and think all you have are few fish and mostly plants etc. My tanks show you can have both.

Designs can be changes, groups can be integrated more etc. As the tank gets larger, the mix of these becomes more overwhelming.

But you sit and watch the tank for many more hours than a simple layout with a single species..............

Which tank would you want to sit in front of?
That's a simple question and one I ask my clients.

Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 12:38 PM   #11
fredyk
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
fredyk's Avatar
 
PTrader: (21/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 314
Default

The hatchets are spectacular!
__________________
fredyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 05:28 PM   #12
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (256/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fredyk View Post
The hatchets are spectacular!
I liked the larger hardier Silvers rather than the marbled.
There's a neat spotted variety I saw also, sort of similar to the silvers in size etc

Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 06:12 PM   #13
rocafreestyler
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 21
Default

Hi

You have said above that this is a tank that you have created for a client. Does the client do all the maintanence or do you look after that. I know with my tank that I am doing bits here and there every other day or week etc. I was just wondering how the tank stays in such tip top condition.

Cheers

Roca

BTW its a beautiful looking tank
rocafreestyler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 06:12 PM   #14
davej
Algae Grower
 
davej's Avatar
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Vancouver Canada
Posts: 75
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Betowess View Post
Is that one of the un catchable SAE in the first photo on bottom right. Man, I spent hours once trying to catch three of those fast hogs in a heavily planted 90!
I had the same problem before, the answer was to take a plastic pop bottle cut the top off, flip it over, and stick it back in the bottle. I then baited it with some pellets. Next morning he was in there and just lifted the whole thing out.
Worked like a charm.
__________________
Eheim pimp #222
http://static.flickr.com/108/279340524_3bcb9c76bb_m.jpg
davej is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2007, 06:19 PM   #15
plantbrain
Planted Tank Guru
 
plantbrain's Avatar
 
PTrader: (256/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The swamp
Posts: 13,381
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocafreestyler View Post
Hi

You have said above that this is a tank that you have created for a client. Does the client do all the maintanence or do you look after that. I know with my tank that I am doing bits here and there every other day or week etc. I was just wondering how the tank stays in such tip top condition.

Cheers

Roca

BTW its a beautiful looking tank
The client does zero work on the tank, maybe feeds them once in awhile.
He has staff that adds food 2x a day and adds the ferts 2x a week(I add it on the 3 rd dose when I come).

So this requires little effort on the client's part.
I spend about 2 hours on average on the tank a week total.

That's it.

Regards,
Tom Barr
__________________
Regards,
Tom Barr
plantbrain is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:56 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012