tests show zero... Am I Cycled?
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Fertilizers and Water Parameters


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2013, 11:42 PM   #1
jaekwong
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 113
Default

tests show zero... Am I Cycled?


I've tested the last 2 days my water (has 3 zebra danios and a pleco). My Nitrates shot up about 4 days ago.

Since then I did a 50% water change as I think my fishes were feeling the effects of nitrite poisoning. They are fine and dandy now though.

Last 2 days my API water tests have been showing
0 Ammonia
0 Nitrites
0 Nitrates (EDIT: see post below, it is now testing at 40-80 ppm )
pH 6.4


Does this even make sense at all? I thought that when my tank is cycled I would at least have readings on Nitrates to inidicate the existence of bacteria.

So my question is, is my tank finally cycled? or is there somethign going on that I'm not aware of.

Thank you

Last edited by jaekwong; 10-03-2013 at 12:40 AM.. Reason: edit on nitrates
jaekwong is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-02-2013, 11:46 PM   #2
Axelrod12
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Axelrod12's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Milford, Connecticut
Posts: 587
Default

You should show nitrates if the tank is cycled and the bacteria are processing ammonia all the way down to nitrate. However, if it is planted heavily enough it is possible that the plants are utilizing the nitrate. Also make sure you are doing the nitrate test correctly. Shake the second bottle and the test tube for the specified amount of time.
Axelrod12 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 12:39 AM   #3
jaekwong
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Vancouver
Posts: 113
Default

WOW

how reading directions is so simple yet makes a world of a difference...

Looks like after your GENIUS advice, my nitrates are now reading somewhere between 40ppm to 80 ppm.

Ammonia has been consinstently 0. So once again, with fish in there, looks like the bacteria is clearing the ammonia for a couple days now. Can i consider this tank cycled and established? I dont have any ammonia to dose, but im sure my fishes make enough waste...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Axelrod12 View Post
You should show nitrates if the tank is cycled and the bacteria are processing ammonia all the way down to nitrate. However, if it is planted heavily enough it is possible that the plants are utilizing the nitrate. Also make sure you are doing the nitrate test correctly. Shake the second bottle and the test tube for the specified amount of time.
jaekwong is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-03-2013, 01:57 AM   #4
Diana
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Contra Costa CA
Posts: 6,407
Default

Do not dose ammonia with fish in the tank!
Do the FishLESS cycle and dose with ammonia.

Anyway, it looks like your tank is cycled for the current population.
When you add more fish it will cycle again... and again... and again... with each addition.
These cycles will be shorter, but can be just as toxic.

Poor fish.

Better would be to take a little bit of the cycled media, put it in a bucket with more media and a small pump. Then do the fishless cycle on that. When it is complete put all the media into the filter, and add fish. MUCH safer to add fish to a tank that has a good bacteria population.

Here is the fishless cycle. Works just fine in a bucket. Just needs good circulation.

Cycle: To grow the beneficial bacteria that remove ammonia and nitrite from the aquarium.

Fish-In Cycle: To expose fish to toxins while using them as the source of ammonia to grow nitrogen cycle bacteria. Exposure to ammonia burns the gills and other soft tissue, stresses the fish and lowers their immunity. Exposure to nitrite makes the blood unable to carry oxygen. Research methemglobinemia for details.

Fishless Cycle: The safe way to grow more bacteria, faster, in an aquarium, pond or riparium.

The method I give here was developed by 2 scientists who wanted to quickly grow enough bacteria to fully stock a tank all at one time, with no plants helping, and overstock it as is common with Rift Lake Cichlid tanks.

1a) Set up the tank and all the equipment. You can plant if you want. Include the proper dose of dechlorinator with the water.
Optimum water chemistry:
GH and KH above 3 German degrees of hardness. A lot harder is just fine.
pH above 7, and into the mid 8s is just fine.
Temperature in the upper 70s F (mid 20s C) is good. Higher is OK if the water is well aerated.
A trace of other minerals may help. Usually this comes in with the water, but if you have a pinch of KH2PO4, that may be helpful.
High oxygen level. Make sure the filter and power heads are running well. Plenty of water circulation.
No toxins in the tank. If you washed the tank, or any part of the system with any sort of cleanser, soap, detergent, bleach or anything else make sure it is well rinsed. Do not put your hands in the tank when you are wearing any sort of cosmetics, perfume or hand lotion. No fish medicines of any sort.
A trace of salt (sodium chloride) is OK, but not required.
This method of growing bacteria will work in a marine system, too. The species of bacteria are different.

1b) Optional: Add any source of the bacteria that you are growing to seed the tank. Cycled media from a healthy tank is good. Decor or some gravel from a cycled tank is OK. Live plants or plastic are OK. Bottled bacteria is great, but only if it contains Nitrospira species of bacteria. Read the label and do not waste your money on anything else.
At the time this was written the right species could be found in:
Dr. Tims One and Only
Tetra Safe Start
Microbe Lift Nite Out II
...and perhaps others.
You do not have to jump start the cycle. The right species of bacteria are all around, and will find the tank pretty fast.

2) Add ammonia until the test reads 5 ppm. This ammonia is the cheapest you can find. No surfactants, no perfumes. Read the fine print. This is often found at discount stores like Dollar Tree, or hardware stores like Ace. You could also use a dead shrimp form the grocery store, or fish food. Protein breaks down to become ammonia. You do not have good control over the ammonia level, though.
Some substrates release ammonia when they are submerged for the first time. Monitor the level and do enough water changes to keep the ammonia at the levels detailed below.

3) Test daily. For the first few days not much will happen, but the bacteria that remove ammonia are getting started. Finally the ammonia starts to drop. Add a little more, once a day, to test 5 ppm.

4) Test for nitrite. A day or so after the ammonia starts to drop the nitrite will show up. When it does allow the ammonia to drop to 3 ppm.

5) Test daily. Add ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. If the nitrite or ammonia go to 5 ppm do a water change to get these lower. The ammonia removing species and the nitrite removing species (Nitrospira) do not do well when the ammonia or nitrite are over 5 ppm.

6) When the ammonia and nitrite both hit zero 24 hours after you have added the ammonia the cycle is done. You can challenge the bacteria by adding a bit more than 3 ppm ammonia, and it should be able to handle that, too, within 24 hours.

7) Now test the nitrate. Probably sky high!
Do as big a water change as needed to lower the nitrate until it is safe for fish. Certainly well under 20, and a lot lower is better. This may call for more than one water change, and up to 100% water change is not a problem. Remember the dechlor!
If you will be stocking right away (within 24 hours) no need to add more ammonia. If stocking will be delayed keep feeding the bacteria by adding ammonia to 3 ppm once a day. You will need to do another water change right before adding the fish.
__________________________

Helpful hints:

A) You can run a fishless cycle in a bucket to grow bacteria on almost any filter media like bio balls, sponges, ceramic bio noodles, lava rock or Matala mats. Simply set up any sort of water circulation such as a fountain pump or air bubbler and add the media to the bucket. Follow the directions for the fishless cycle. When the cycle is done add the media to the filter. I have run a canister filter in a bucket and done the fishless cycle.

B) The nitrogen cycle bacteria will live under a wide range of conditions and bounce back from minor set backs. By following the set up suggestions in part 1b) you are setting up optimum conditions for fastest reproduction and growth.
GH and KH can be as low as 1 degree, but watch it! These bacteria use the carbon in carbonates, and if it is all used up (KH = 0) the bacteria may die off.
pH as low as 6.5 is OK, but by 6.0 the bacteria are not going to be doing very well. They are still there, and will recover pretty well when conditions get better.
Temperature almost to freezing is OK, but they must not freeze, and they are not very active at all. They do survive in a pond, but they are slow to warm up and get going in the spring. This is where you might need to grow some in a bucket in a warm place and supplement the pond population. Too warm is not good, either. Tropical or room temperature tank temperatures are best. (68 to 85*F or 20 to 28*C)
Moderate oxygen can be tolerated for a while. However, to remove lots of ammonia and nitrite these bacteria must have oxygen. They turn one into the other by adding oxygen. If you must stop running the filter for an hour or so, no problem. If longer, remove the media and keep it where it will get more oxygen.
Once the bacteria are established they can tolerate some fish medicines. This is because they live in a complex film called Bio film on all the surfaces in the filter and the tank. Medicines do not enter the bio film well.
These bacteria do not need to live under water. They do just fine in a humid location. They live in healthy garden soil, as well as wet locations.

C) Planted tanks may not tolerate 3 ppm or 5 ppm ammonia. It is possible to cycle the tank at lower levels of ammonia so the plants do not get ammonia burn. Add ammonia to only 1 ppm, but test twice a day, and add ammonia as needed to keep it at 1 ppm. The plants are also part of the bio filter, and you may be able to add the fish sooner, if the plants are thriving.
Diana is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012