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Old 08-28-2013, 12:24 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
VIV easily rivals ADA for quality of pipes. Some VIV products are better.

I've seen retail for a lot of pipes in Asia and Europe with pricing around the $50-$60 range. $80 would be on the high side but still potentially worth it from the right retailer.
Yeah, I am shooting high just to be safe. Better for you to assume higher and get a better price than to say cheaper and you be upset when a retailer marks it up, know what I mean?

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Just give me a english catalog and tell me how to buy... these'll work great on my new riparium
Will do my friend. Haha.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:08 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Chronados View Post
It's called capitalism. I fail to see how it affects you. Open competition keeps the prices low and the options open
True, but rewarding the innovators and not the imitators allows for that money to be put back in R&D for new products.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:32 AM   #18
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True, but rewarding the innovators and not the imitators allows for that money to be put back in R&D for new products.
I would agree with you. But at least in the case of some of the brands and products we distribute, products that other companies sell are just rebranded products produced by our brands. It gets confusing, but it is the reality. And then of course some items are made to compete with a product someone else makes (knock off if you want to call it that). So there is a little of both in most companies. We usually get to the source of who originally produced the product though and don't just go for a cheap manufacturer that can duplicate. And then there are items like regulators and and aquariums which lets face it most manufacturers can make, and then just put their own spin on it.

I would say that most important roles of leaders in certain areas are marketing and promotion. Gaining an interest in the products being produced. But for the most part everything that is made such as aquariums, protein skimmers, heaters, etc. etc. are the same as they have always been with just twists and improvements. Very rarely is something produced that is completely original. Rimless tanks were made before ADA, Chillers were made before JBJ, Pyrex glass was used for pipes of different kinds before Lily pipe. It is just the cycle and progression of things.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:34 AM   #19
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True, but rewarding the innovators and not the imitators allows for that money to be put back in R&D for new products.
That's what patents are for. These "knockoffs" aren't copying some technology, they are copying a style. It's not like ADA spent months running flow optimization simulations on their filters and lily pipes (assumption, but let's be honest...), only to have someone copy their exact specs. Now, if someone copied something like the Spin pipe, which may or may not have a patent, you could make that argument
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:41 AM   #20
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Default VIV Lily pipes etc.

look at the site he linked... It's an EXACT copy of ADA. They even made the label look exactly like ADA... Just calling it what it is. Even down to the feeder and mini diffuser.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:43 AM   #21
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Chronados, they actually do make a spin pipe!
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:48 AM   #22
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Chronados, they actually do make a spin pipe!
Well I'll be. Looks like someone should have applied for a patent
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:50 AM   #23
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look at the site he linked... It's an EXACT copy of ADA. They even made the label look exactly like ADA... Just calling it what it is. Even down to the feeder and mini diffuser.
There is a very good reason why it looks the same.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:52 AM   #24
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look at the site he linked... It's an EXACT copy of ADA. They even made the label look exactly like ADA... Just calling it what it is. Even down to the feeder and mini diffuser.
And if the quality is the same (or better), why is that a bad thing? Cheaper ADA style goods for everyone and a boost to the planted tank hobby in general. I'm not arguing against the content of what you said. Yeah, it's a knockoff. I'm arguing with the connotation of your statement.
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Old 08-28-2013, 01:55 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Chronados View Post
And if the quality is the same (or better), why is that a bad thing? Cheaper ADA style goods for everyone and a boost to the planted tank hobby in general. I'm not arguing against the content of what you said. Yeah, it's a knockoff. I'm arguing with the connotation of your statement.
I'm all for helping the hobby and what not but its copying something else.. My original statement meant " hey look another ADA wanna be" see something successful and copy it seems to be a trend lately
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:02 AM   #26
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I'm all for helping the hobby and what not but its copying something else.. My original statement meant " hey look another ADA wanna be" see something successful and copy it seems to be a trend lately
By lately you mean since... the start of business . There's been knockoffs of this stuff for years in the Asian market. You're only noticing it now because people have started importing to the US now that there's a growing market

On that note, sorry for derailing the thread. The products look great and I look forward to seeing them (and their prices!)
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Old 08-28-2013, 02:10 AM   #27
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I'm all for helping the hobby and what not but its copying something else.. My original statement meant " hey look another ADA wanna be" see something successful and copy it seems to be a trend lately
Nothing is actually really a knock off was my point. ADA is a brand to sell product focused around the successful marketing of a very good aquatic designer and practician. He is an asset to the progression of our sect of the hobby. But none of the products are original, just improved on and marketed. Product is designed and then contracted in some cases to be produced. The real innovation to rimless aquariums is the silicone made by the Germans that enables rimless aquariums to be more structurally sound.
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:35 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by PK1 View Post
What would S-Scissors retail for approximately?

Not sure yet. This shipment is only the glassware.
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:41 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by SevenportsJohn View Post
There is a very good reason why it looks the same.
Why's that? Is it because of the same original manufacturer?
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Old 08-28-2013, 04:47 AM   #30
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Why's that? Is it because of the same original manufacturer?
Can't confirm or deny. I can tell you VIV is the manufacturer. They are the original manufacturer, not rebranded.
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