Anonapersona--Hagen PlantGro update???
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Old 12-12-2002, 12:50 AM   #1
cvarcher
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Hi, I was wondering how your Co2 system is working out by Hagen Nutrigro? Last time you mentioned 6 bubbles per minute since some time in November.Is it still bubbling on the same yeast tab?Are the plants improving/pearling?
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Old 12-12-2002, 01:53 PM   #2
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Drat, I typed out a huge long response and didn't post it! OK, short version. Bubbles down from 6/min to 3/min after 3 1/2 weeks. Algae on ramps, even after mild scrubbing with toothbrush, is keeping bubbles from moving down entire path. (Had to stop ferts for medical treatment, giving algae a foothold) PH effect 1st week 8.0 drop to 7.4 on 3rd day, 7.4 on 7th day, no test 14th day, 7.7 21st day. Plants still bubbling almost as much as before however, a few fine bubbles from plants directly under light bulbs.

Comparing that to DIY yeast with a gelatine recipe, initial rate is much more bubbles per minute, but I think that was air from the bottle, now it is making 2 or 3 bubbles a minute, hard to say because it is a stream of minute bubbles that lasts for 10 sec then stops for 20 sec. PH effect on 3rd day was 8.0 drop to 7.4 in tank with homemade reactor, 8.0 to 7.8 on 3rd day for airstone free below power filter outlet. In each tank, I see some fine bubbles from plants, however. Some snot on each airstone probably hindering response, need to make bubble counter, this weekend.
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Old 12-12-2002, 10:30 PM   #3
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What is your KH? When you say your pH went from 8.0 to 7.4 that could mean a lot or a little depending on the KH of your water. It will give us a good gauge as to how much your CO2 actually increased.

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Old 12-12-2002, 11:17 PM   #4
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Kh is 9 degrees.
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Old 01-05-2003, 04:25 PM   #5
EJSwanny
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I just set up 2 of these yesterday and for some reason I haven't had any bubbles at all. In fact, in the tubing that is submerged it is filled with water. The tubing out of the water is not. Can it be that I have too much tubing? I do hav alot of slack... I have both cannisters on the floor inside my cabinet. I'm sure it has to be something simple like that. Anyone have any experience like this with a DIY or with this system?
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Old 01-05-2003, 05:03 PM   #6
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No matter how much tubing you have (unless it is an insane amount!), that shouldn't be an issue. If you have a little more tubing, that isn't that much more volume to be filled up with gas if you think about it.

I would say wait a day and if no bubbles chances are it is a leak. Also, if your water was too hot to begin with, then you might have killed the yeast.

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Old 01-05-2003, 05:10 PM   #7
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I was going to blow the water out of the tubing and then reconnect it to see if that did anything but I'll just wait and see. I am pretty sure the water temp was OK but I didn't actually test for temp. Oh well wait and see I spose... Thanks.
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Old 01-05-2003, 06:18 PM   #8
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It was a leak. I tightened up the caps as far as they would go this time and that did the trick. I used to get yelled at for tightening things too much :hehe:
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Old 01-13-2003, 05:08 PM   #9
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January update. I've decided to switch out the Hagen cansiters when I see a rise in pH or the bubble rate declines from 6 to 4 bpm. That means two or three weeks.

Adding extra sugar made the initial rate higher, but the system declined faster, nearly dead in 2 weeks.

In the tank that has a huge algae problem, I've moved the diffuser to the very back to try to avoid algae growth which snags the bubbles. Cleaning algae is a real pain, the ramps are close together and even a toothbrush is not really effective. A long soak in bleach and sun drying has meant that I needed to buy an extra system in order to rotate the diffusers around.

So, now I have 3 entire sets. If I ever manage to duplicate the mixture, or better yet, create my own that runs harder AND longer AND cheaper, then I will be quite satisfied.

I am currenlty experimenting with gelatine based yeast systems and if this first jug EVER runs out, I will try it in a Hagen canister to see what rate and lifespan I can acheive. My 2 liter jug was started 12/05/02 and is still going on 01/13/03.
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Old 01-15-2003, 01:41 AM   #10
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It is weird, sometimes the yeast seems to go on forever! I once had a yeast colony that stayed active for 2 months! Go figure!

-Tim
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Old 01-15-2003, 03:20 AM   #11
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Now that is a serious batch you got going... I never got more then 2 weeks out of a 2 litre and even then that was pushin it.
What is this gelatin base ? Maybe others using yeast mixes could benifit...
I know Im curious cuz I have a friend that wants to try plants...
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Old 01-22-2003, 12:31 AM   #12
anonapersona
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This 12/05 bottle has been moved to the 20 gallon while I was dealing with small system leaks. The gelatin is down to 6 1/2 bubbles per minute (really 13 in 2 min, just to explain the 1/2).

This past Sunday on test day 1/19 I took half of the yeast water out and added in warm tap water. It had slowed down to 5 bpm on 1/12 but after I fixed the leaks I counted 10 bpm. That declined to 6 1/2 by 1/19 so I diluted the water but it didn't reallly make a difference it appears, well the rate didn't improve but the decline seems less perhaps. I also have tried a second bottle with less Knox and a smaller bottle and the ratio of water to gel seems to be very important, the decline rate was much much faster in that one, in fact, I had to suction out some of the gel to put more water in to keep it going. That improved the rate a lot so it was choking on waste. The smaller bottle has about 25% water vs the bigger bottle having 50% water. I will test one bottle with an even higher water ratio.

6 bpm is the limit I will tolerate as I know that the Hagen bottle will give me that to start with and that is the standard I am trying to best. The two bottles are on different tanks each lowering the pH from 8.2 to about 7.6, maybe 7.4 at the start. One is running into a DIY vortex-style reactor, the other to a Hagen diffuser (along with the regular Hagen bottle that is 2 weeks old -- just added some cardinals to this tank so I ws worried about letting the pH drop if the rate fell further)

Anyhow, that 12/05 bottle has 4 pkts of Knox gelatine dissolved in 1/2 cup cold water added to a 2 liter juice bottle that has 2 cups sugar dissolved in 1 1/2 cups warm water. Mix well, shaking is fine. Chill overnight to set. Allow to warm to room temp, then add 1/2 cup warm water, 1/2 teaspoon yeast and 1/4 teaspoon sugar (but I think that sugar may not be necessary as the gelatine foam on top is pretty easy to melt with the warm water you add). Add more warm water to 1 inch from top. Any closer and you risk foam in the line. I recommend using a second jar as a bubble counter to scrub any yeast out of the gas, keeps the snot from forming in the tank.

These last 2 weekends I have opened the bottle and stirred it, this time I replaced some water since it looked pretty thick. Be sure to put the bottle on top of the tank before you open it -- I found that a heavy clip on the line will not keep the tank water from siphoning down the line when the bottle top is open. How a line that is full of gas going in then starts to siphon back is beyond me.

So, on this Wednesday, this bottle will finish it's 7th week.
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Old 01-22-2003, 12:47 AM   #13
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I cant believe that thing is still going...

Sounds like a good Recipe....
If I had mixes running that long and that efficiently I might not have invested in the pressurized setup ! :hehe:
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Old 01-22-2003, 01:30 PM   #14
anonapersona
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The decline rate is what is critical.

I think that the initial rate was probably around 30 - 40 bpm, based on the starting rate from the second bottle and guessing about the size of the leak. Now it is near 6 bpm. The only reason that is acceptable is because my filtering system seems to limit how well the CO2 stays in my tank, or maybe it is my water chemistry.

I start with 8.2 pH and 9d KH and so the pH effect is not too huge at the start. So far, the Ph has stayed pretty stable 7.2 to 7.6 -- although I did switch tanks and so I can't be 100% sure of that.

In a couple of weeks I'll start a new bottle and hopefully be able to run it in the same tank the entire time. I'm still working on emptying the next big juice bottle -- Cosmpolitan, anyone?

What I hope to do is to get a recipe that I can use in the Hagen bottle that will last a month and give me a very high and stable rate for those smaller tanks. The 29 gallon tank will probably always need the 2 liter bottle.
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