kh from 5 to 0 in a week?!
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:51 AM   #1
meppitech
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kh from 5 to 0 in a week?!


Im lost. I have a betta tank that went through a rough time. Fast forward. All plants are doing well, sending runners and such. Did an 80% WC a week ago and i tested kh just to do it and the vial never got blue, just light yellow on first drop and bright yellow after two. My tap takes five drops to turn it from blue to yellow. Ammonia is zero and so is the nitrite. There is no rotting plant matter and i feed three pellets a day. It is a 5.5 gallon tank. Any suggestions or help?
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:54 AM   #2
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May just be inconsistency in the tap. Take another sample of your water straight out of the tap, and see how that looks?
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:02 AM   #3
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Straight out of the tap i again tested the water. Kh of 5 ph of 7.6 and betta tank kh of 0 ph 6.8
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:44 AM   #4
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i dont know if kh is the same as ph but the only way to get a accurate ph reading is to take the tap water and set it out overnight with a air stone, then test it.

kh really doesnt matter as long as the ph isnt getting to low. my kh in my 75g is zero dew to aqua soil and even with injected co2 my ph still bounces back. test you ph throughout the week and as long as it stays the same you should be fine.

are you using co2?
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Old 06-20-2013, 02:56 AM   #5
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What do you have in the Betta tank? Driftwood? Stone? What kind of substrate?

(CO2 won't impact kH)
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:22 AM   #6
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No co2. Eco complete and plants. Deep blue filter with some matrix and a sponge. Fugeray-r light.

I treat the water with prime. I dose dry ferts. I dont add anything else.

Last edited by Darkblade48; 06-20-2013 at 11:20 AM.. Reason: Please use the edit function for back to back posts to keep threads cleaner
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:37 AM   #7
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Tap water, especially if you have well water can have CO2 in it. My well water is 7.4 ph out of the tap and jumps to 8.6 the next day after the CO2 escapes. This is probably what is happening with yours. That's why the recommendation to let it sit over night then test it.

The Skeptical Aquarist has a great and detailed write up on CO2 and it's connection to pH and water hardness at http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/dissolved-co2-ph
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:44 AM   #8
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I will take some out now to try this. I wanna say i tried this before when i initially moved here to get a feel for what i would be dealing with but here goes. Im also pretty sure whether i aerated it or not, the ph stayed the same. I will have to try both these methods again in the name of science.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:49 AM   #9
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sometime i have to repeat the test, it gave me similar results, make sure you are following the instructions.
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Old 06-20-2013, 03:52 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
What do you have in the Betta tank? Driftwood? Stone? What kind of substrate?

(CO2 won't impact kH)
but adding co2 will bounce the ph around and without kh it can potentially crash or at least from what i understand. i have never seen this before as my 75g stays between ph 5.8-6.8. i think consistent water changes help. i do EI so 50% a week.
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:00 AM   #11
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I did the kh and ph tests on both bodies of water (tap and tank) twice. The test for ph is pretty simple i think. 5ml of water and three drops of solution with bottle completely inverted. Kh test 5ml of water add one drop at a time, inverting a few times between drops. I even shake my bottles up prior to using just to make sure everything is homogenius. Idk. I will just keep working on it and cancelling things out as i go.
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Old 06-20-2013, 04:57 AM   #12
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I don't know if this will apply here since I don't know how strong the Fugeray-R is. Anyway, if the plants are not getting enough dissolved CO2 from the water, then they have the ability to use the carbonates as a source of CO2 (I'm pretty sure the bacteria use it also). It may not be possible that the plants can drop the KH that much, but I don't know since I have not experienced it first hand. I would think supplementing seachem excel, or something similar, would eliminate the possibility of this.
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Old 06-20-2013, 01:07 PM   #13
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Seems to me there's something inside the tank absorbing the KH.

bankruptjojo: pH swings as a result of CO2 injection aren't anything to worry about. Since hardness isn't impacted, the livestock won't suffer. The only problem is over-saturation / lack of oxygen, which is easily remedied. When CO2 dissolves (for lack of a better term), it turns becomes carbonic acid. That's what makes the pH look like it's jumping around.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:08 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chevyguy8893 View Post
I don't know if this will apply here since I don't know how strong the Fugeray-R is. Anyway, if the plants are not getting enough dissolved CO2 from the water, then they have the ability to use the carbonates as a source of CO2 (I'm pretty sure the bacteria use it also). It may not be possible that the plants can drop the KH that much, but I don't know since I have not experienced it first hand. I would think supplementing seachem excel, or something similar, would eliminate the possibility of this.

if you are using aqua soil, Peat moss, driftwood, these will reduce the KH quite quickly. plant can use Kh in absent of co2, but you wont see a big change in KH.
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Old 06-20-2013, 08:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bankruptjojo View Post
but adding co2 will bounce the ph around and without kh it can potentially crash or at least from what i understand. i have never seen this before as my 75g stays between ph 5.8-6.8. i think consistent water changes help. i do EI so 50% a week.
PH crash are myth when they occur with having 0kh or related to Co2. the ph crash doesn't kill fish, sudden change in KH will kill them. if you want to experiment it, try this: make sure you have 0kh water and with fish and co2 running, if you measure 5.0 PH in your tank, suddenly change the water with 0kh water, which might measure 6.2PH and you wont see dead fish, that is a big Ph swing by 1 point.
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