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Old 12-05-2003, 06:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCMurphy
Like I said, if you want to screw up a tank, and stand around scratching your head as to why, put some peat in the substrate. Have a wonderful time, just don't tell other people that it's OK, that is irresponsible .
I am going to have to flat out disagree with you here. Proper usage of Peat has been advocated in this hobby for over 30 years, and many people here have used it (or are still using it) sucsessfully as a substrate additive.

In fact, the "Power sand" that Takashi Amano uses and recomends is mostly comprised of Peat and Pumice, so unless you're saying that Takashi Amano doesn't know what he's doing, I fail to see your justification.
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Old 12-05-2003, 08:12 PM   #17
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Thanks Gareth,

I did not want to challenge that statement. I use peat in all my planted tanks. Just a thin layer at the bottom of the substrate. It does no harm and on the one tank I forgot to put it in I noticed it took months to get any decent plant growth due to the unavailability of the nutrients in the substrate.
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Old 12-05-2003, 08:46 PM   #18
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I've used Peat for 10 years myself... And I am the first to admit that yes, if you use too much you can have some problems initially. My 90 gallon tank is a prime example.. I used too much peat in the soil and it took the tank 8 weeks to cycle initially. Now though.. its one of my most sucsessful tanks... And I keep some of my more finicky loaches in there with no problems.
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Old 12-06-2003, 05:02 PM   #19
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Rex..G, what peat do you recommend that I use under the Eco-Complete in my 75g? How thin of a layer do I need?
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Old 12-06-2003, 10:09 PM   #20
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A very thin layer. Maybe a handful or two at the most. I use normal old garden peat that you buy by the cubic foot.
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Old 12-06-2003, 11:36 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg
I did not want to challenge that statement.
Challenge away Rex, that's the only way we have discussion.
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Old 12-07-2003, 12:14 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GDominy
I am going to have to flat out disagree with you here. Proper usage of Peat has been advocated in this hobby for over 30 years, and many people here have used it (or are still using it) sucsessfully as a substrate additive.

In fact, the "Power sand" that Takashi Amano uses and recomends is mostly comprised of Peat and Pumice, so unless you're saying that Takashi Amano doesn't know what he's doing, I fail to see your justification.
So we can't learn from our mistakes? We have gotten away from incandescent bulbs that were too hot, under gravel filters that clog and biological filters for planted tanks, plain gravel substrates with no nutrients, no CO2 input because CO2 was bad, no fertilizer input because ammonium and nitrates were bad....Yet many people managed to grow plants using those methods.

I agree that proper use of peat should be advocated, but using it in the substrate has not been advocated for even 10 years. Before the Optimum Aquarium came out hailing laterite the only book that really discussed plants was Rataj's book, and he advocated using plain gravel. Do we do that anymore, just let the fish mulm take care of things, eventually?

Anyhow you or Rex using peat is fine, you both have figured out how much to put in and are willing to live through the initial algae bloom, have fun. Just tell me why you think it is such a good idea to tell new people that don't know how to live with an algae bloom to use peat?

Maybe you guys should try a mineralized topsoil with no humis once and see what you get, no algae blooms and everything grows. Mix a little clay in there and you will have a substrate that closely resembles what you find in natural wetlands.

The Power Sand is a highly processed pumice and peat mix. If you have read the Aquajournal that ADA puts out you would come to realize that Mr. Amano is a wiz at growing plants and the master at aquascaping. However you would really notice that his is the worlds best at algae bloom eradication. His highlight tanks often are overcome with algae and his has become adept at battling it back. Massive water changes, large populations of shrimp and otocinculus, and replanting if necessary are some of his methods, and he can make them work in less than 40 days from the initial set up of a tank. I think part of the reason he can get past the initial problem so fast is that the Power Sand is so highly processes that the peat is highly fragmented and decomposes much faster than unprocessed peat.

I really wish he'd take the step and learn to stop the algae bloom before it happened rather than just expect it and compensate for it later. We can become such creatures of habit when we get good at something.

Challenge away.
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Old 12-07-2003, 02:25 AM   #23
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What algae bloom? The only algae I have ever had in a new tank is diatom. And right now I have a plant free tank with no peat that has the worst diatom outbreak I have ever seen. And due to the fish that are in there and the water chemistry I can't even put a Otto in there to clean it up.
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Old 12-07-2003, 11:19 AM   #24
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Where can I get Power Sand if it's "better" than regular peat?
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Old 12-07-2003, 02:36 PM   #25
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I don't think Power Sand is really available in the US right now. And I seem to remember that when it was it was around $2-$3 a pound. Power sand is not "better" than regular peat. It's just volcanic pumice and peat.

Raul-7, a word of advice, you can take it or leave it. It seems like you are chasing perfection. Stop. Just set up your tank and enjoy it.
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Old 12-07-2003, 04:06 PM   #26
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LOL! Yeah, that's one problem about me..I always try to get everything perfect and the best! Of course that isn't particulary good for my wallet..:roll: But seriously, the only reason I wanted peat was to make my water acidic so I can breed Rams, Angels, and my various other Characins...
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Old 12-07-2003, 04:30 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg
Raul-7, a word of advice, you can take it or leave it. It seems like you are chasing perfection. Stop. Just set up your tank and enjoy it.
Excellent advise, you have my, unneeded, second.
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Old 12-07-2003, 05:28 PM   #28
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Another word of advice.

If you live in an area that has naturally hard water don't fight the water. Breed fish that are adapted to hard water. Fighting the water gets old very quickly. Making the water softer is MUCH harder than making it harder. I live in an area with extremely soft water. But it's each to keep hard water fish because you can in 5 minutes adjust the water to their liking. But taking hard water and making it softer is MUCH harder, MUCH more expensive, and take MUCH longer.

The use of peat to soften the water will work. But to do it right you would be better off bagging the peat, and getting a very large pot and boiling the bagged peat. Then take the water from that pot and use it to soften the water before you add it to the tank. Or get a garbage can and put the bagged, and pre-boiled peat in the garbage can. Place a heater and powerhead in the tank and just let it swirl around till the water is where you want it.
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Old 12-07-2003, 05:42 PM   #29
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The only problem is I don't really want to keep Rainbowfish at this moment; maybe if I end up in a war with my water I will switch to Rainbows then. Would using the Softening Pillow for XP's work?
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Old 12-07-2003, 06:13 PM   #30
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Raul may I suggest you try Tetra blackwater additive, I used it on my tank, and the angels I bought a few weeks back suddenly decided to start opening their fins again and looks happy for a change, also my plants seems to have taken off with about 4 leaves each, one started makeing red leaves, I dunno what its called I can post a pick if you want. And it hardly made my water any darker, the darkness goes away after about 48 hours.
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