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Old 04-30-2013, 01:59 AM   #16
James M
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You want a pure, calcined clay with no additives - I'm not familiar with oil-dri so I can't answer that definitively. The products sold for baseball field topdressing work great - but I mixed it with soil about 50-50. Some people use it by itself, which is fine too but it doesn't hold the plants as well until the roots really grow in.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:31 AM   #17
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i have special kitty clay mixed with organic dirt capped with quikrete sand looks nice and cheep as dirt XD
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Old 04-30-2013, 01:47 PM   #18
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Thought I would share, thanks for the input all. I may not have to decide, the wife has apparently authorized 8 bags of flourite black sand for fathers day




That sucker was heavy! Two of us carried in the house/upstairs. I was really nervous to stand it on end to get it in the office, but there was no other way.
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Old 04-30-2013, 02:08 PM   #19
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how's the support under the floor?
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:24 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scapegoat View Post
how's the support under the floor?
We are adding 5 more vertical 2x4's (directly under each joist as they are staggered now) and sandwiching all the existing floor joists under the tank before I fill it. It's on an outside, load bearing, corner wall - so my builder friend told me not to worry about it, but that if I wanted to he'll help me beef it up w/ 40-50 worth of wood to make me sleep better at night.

Thankfully, as it is over the garage we had easy access to the studs/joists to do this.

*edit to add*
Tank is running across the floor joists, and the floor itself is 3/4" oak naildown.

Last edited by majorwoo; 04-30-2013 at 03:40 PM.. Reason: added details
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:31 PM   #21
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Yeah you would be fine with no further support, I've done this many times with tanks exactly that size. More support certainly won't hurt anything though.
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:38 PM   #22
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Anyone with a large tank want to give me some thoughts on my canister arrangements? I'll be running two Rena XP4's which should be massive overkill (which I don't believe is possible for filtration but may make too much current) but I'm wondering about by intake/outake positions.

I'm thinking a spraybar on either narrow end of the tank spraying towards the middle, with both intakes low and roughly in the middle. Sort of like this:



I'm thinking of the green spraybar positions with either the blue or the yellow as intake positions - it seems people do fine with either - I'd prefer the yellow intake locations as I think that gives me a cleaner look - but I'm worried about not getting enough circulation in the middle of the tank that way.

Viewing Angles:
The front and left side of the tank will be viewable - the right side will be in the corner.

Last edited by majorwoo; 04-30-2013 at 03:41 PM.. Reason: added details
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:42 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majorwoo View Post
We are adding 5 more vertical 2x4's (directly under each joist as they are staggered now) and sandwiching all the existing floor joists under the tank before I fill it. It's on an outside, load bearing, corner wall - so my builder friend told me not to worry about it, but that if I wanted to he'll help me beef it up w/ 40-50 worth of wood to make me sleep better at night.

Thankfully, as it is over the garage we had easy access to the studs/joists to do this.

*edit to add*
Tank is running across the floor joists, and the floor itself is 3/4" oak naildown.
awesome to hear. A lot of people just don't think about the floor underneath such a large tank. good luck!
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Old 04-30-2013, 03:57 PM   #24
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Why so much filtration on a planted tank? The plants are a filter in and of themselves - I run a power filter just for water movement, my plants are my primary filter.
Anyhoo, that arrangement looks fine, but there's also no reason one or both spray bars can't be mounted on the back of the tank as well. You're going to get current to matter what, can't be helped. What you have outlined there though will be fine.
We're not dealing with corals here, plants need very little water flow over their leaves, and too much is counter productive.
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:03 PM   #25
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Honestly, the reason for both canisters was because I got them both so cheaply I thought I would need the circulation from them more then the actual cleaning. I have one canister on my 65 and no problems whatsoever, but as I had both of them I figured I would hook them up and be able to rotate canister cleanings (I do worry whenever I clean my canister on my current tank, even in tank water)

Of course, 5 minutes ago I cracked the elbow on one of the spraybars so maybe that's a sign from God I only need one
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Old 04-30-2013, 04:04 PM   #26
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I have never heard someone say too much water flow was counter prodcutive in a planted tank - which I admit, I'm still new to planted tanks. Can you point me to some resources to read on the subject?
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Old 04-30-2013, 07:00 PM   #27
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Plants can only extract Co2 and nutrients from the water at a certain rate, there is a point of diminishing returns, and it happens at a fairly slow flow rate. Again, these are not corals. I would direct you to Diana Walstad's "Ecology of the Planted Aquarium" for starters - that should be your bible, then go from there. Even if you don't set up a Walstad style tank.
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Old 04-30-2013, 08:31 PM   #28
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Ok, now that I can understand - the diminishing returns from increased flow/filtration based on absorbtion rate, but I was surprised when you said counter productive which had me wondering if I was making things worse as opposed to just not any better.

I'll have to see about a eCopy of the book - thanks!
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Old 04-30-2013, 10:51 PM   #29
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It's a matter of finding balance. The fish need oxygen, the plants need oxygen, but the plants also need Co2. Too much agitation means less Co2.
I've seen very heavily stocked tanks (and I'm talking 60 fancy guppies in a 20 gallon) with only a HOB filter for water movement. Healthy fish, and vigorous plant growth. You don't a torrent going on.

The tanks I speak of, the guy does large water changes twice a week to maintain that fish load BTW. He breeds them.

You can use a canister on one end, and a power head throttled down a bit on the other, this will allow you fiddle with the current more.
Don't let me make you think that adding the second canister is a bad thing, if you end up stocking very heavily it could be of help to you.
I just wanted to point out that the plants themselves can be the ENTIRE filter in many cases.
Every tank is different.
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Old 05-01-2013, 01:29 AM   #30
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No, I appreciate the input.

I think I will setup both ( I found a spare elbow) and see how it is. I don't want the fish to be blown all over the tank, but I do like the idea of dual filters (I'm an IT guy, redundancy is ingrained into my way of thinking anyway )

I do understand that the plants can be the filter all to themselves - but I know that my girls enjoy lots of fish in the tank, and they are already planning what fish can go in the tank and I don't even have it plugged in yet
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