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The crab shack - devils and vampires - updated with pics 1/29/14

52K views 104 replies 44 participants last post by  lamiskool 
#1 · (Edited)
So after researching, planning and researching some more, I decided to build a tank for geosesarma crabs. I did not want to simply set up a tank, put some gravel in and have a little water area since I was looking for a long-term build project with a significant dry and wet area. The plan ultimately was to build a vivarium/paludarium (I'm still not sure on the terminology) where I could provide a significant water and land portion as well as have enough upwards room to grow epiphytes that enjoy the high humidity like fern, orchids, mosses, bromeliads, etc.

Many vivaria are designed with a very shallow water level (1-2 inches) and a significant land and vertical area as most of these are for frogs. I definitely took many build ideas from the "frog people" and modified them to fit my design.

The tank is a 37 gallon (general 20L footprint, but 22" high). There is a 6" deep water feature and the substrate will be something like 4-5" deep above the water. I read the crabs are tunnelers so I want to provide them with enough depth to be able to thoroughly dig their burrows to provide them with semi-natural conditions. The substrate is elevated off the water via an egg-crate false bottom so that it does not stay water-logged. There is a part that will extend into the water and will be able to grow marginal plants (like emersed crypts, thank you Gordon). I'll have a layer of hydroton in the bottom to be able to support springtails, isopods, and other microfauna which will act as janitors and live food. I heard these vivaria tend to form mold (I guess there is an arch-nemesis or each enclosure: aquariums have algae, vivaria have mold, etc.) so I want to have janitors to clean that up.

There is a water fall to return oxygenated water back into the water and to add a little humidity via evaporation. Also, it looks nice :D. The whole waterfall is driven via a Fluval 405 which is ample filtration and gph. Actually, it is more gph than I need and I might downgrade sometime in the future, but currently it works. I covered the outlets with mesh so the flow will be decreased and to direct the water to run along the background, instead of just falling and splashing everywhere.

I am planning on keeping the temperature of the tank around 24-26C, so I want to have the water around 26-27 degrees to allow for evaporation. Ultimately, I want to add an inline heater, but currently a submersed heater hidden in some corner will have to do. I am confident that I'll be able to hide it.

Lighting wise, I decided to go with a 30" HO T5 fixture to be able to grow high-light demanding plants like bromeliads. The light extends pretty well to the bottom, and I think I'll be able to grow low-light plants in the water.

I'll add a detailed build log in the next posts, since the pictures are currently uploading to photo bucket. Also, I just wanted to note, that now looking back, a ready-made background that you can buy in a store are a lot cheaper than home-made. Only, you can't customize them, and you don't get the satisfaction of building it yourself :D.

I would like to thank several people (on TPT or not) who have been great in extending information and helping me plan this:
My lovely fiancee for her help and understanding (especially of the mess), Gordon Richards, Rachel O'Leary, Bill Brissette, Bill (Fishes_in_Philly), rozdaboff, John from NEFG, Matt and Doug on dendroboard. Also, Jaime and *** for encouragement and thoughful comments. I am sorry if I forgot you.
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Alles hat einen Anfang:

***sorry for the bad picture qualities. I'm not a photographer***

First thing I needed to construct was the false bottom. I definitely wanted a larger water area since I do have a strong aquarium background and want to keep some fish in the water (they also provide live food for the crabs if they so choose).

I designed and build the false bottom with a marginal and dry area in mind.


I then elevated it off the ground with PVC pipes cut to the desired length as well as "fences" to keep animals out of certain areas.


Next, I wanted to arrange the wood and decide on the final layout.

The big root on the egg crate most likely won't make it into the final design since it does take up a lot of space.

The design evolved:


This pic you can see the pvc supports:


to this:


In the end you'll realize I didn't use much of the earlier brain storms.

Next I needed to do the plumbing.
Here is the filter intake (I ended up cutting off the bend since the filter wasn't strong enough to draw in water with all the bends):


I then covered the background in brown silicone (I read GS foam sticks better to silicone) and positioned the outlet for the waterfall:


Next I covered the egg crate and the PVC pipes in weed block to cover them up and to allow for water drainage through the egg crate layer (so apparently weed block is crappy draining material, so I poked larger holes into it):


Next Post: GS foam everywhere
 
#3 ·
Und weiter geht's!

To keep the substrate on the egg crate and prevent washing off I sprayed foam all around the edges. One note about GS foam. When people say it gets everywhere they mean EVERYWHERE! I lined the bathroom with painters plastic tarps to make sure I wouldn't mess anything up.
Foam:

Plastic:


The whole background was build using GS foam. I put down several foam layers first and then cut out holes to put in the wood. I found that method safer and it was easier to keep the wood in place during drying than immediately putting the wood in place with the first layer of foam. Sadly, I have no pictures in between the last one and this one:
All the sticks and ropes are used to keep the wood and bark in place during drying.

Another angle:


The root in the middle is part of the waterfall and will direct the water to where it's supposed to go.

Final layout of all the wood and bark pieces that will be permanent with some of the foam already carved:


Different angle and you can see the waterfall outlets well:


I then did a water test and realized the fluval 405 is way too strong for the waterfall. So I covered the outlets in weed-block (for once it was good that weed-block doesn't drain water well):


And the whole waterfall:


Next up: Toxic smells and dirt
 
#4 ·
Dreck ueberall!

So now there's another large jump forward in time since I didn't take any pictures of any in-between steps. I covered the background with two mixes: one of Titebond III (a wood glue) and peat mossand one with silicone and peat moss. The silicone I used around the waterfall and any areas that would be permanently water-logged. The titebond III is used anywhere else. I used the two mixed, because of several reasons:
1. I heard TB III softens up under constant water exposure and I don't want my background to dissolve away.
2. Silicone is permanently water tight and won't get soft.
3. Silicone apparently won't hold the peat moss forever, so I only wanted to use it where it is absolutely necessary
4. I was curious to see which would perform better long-term since I read about both methods, but could not decide which was the better way to go.

So now the tank looked like this:

Finally, I just needed to do some tweaking to the background, add a semi submerged area for the crabs to sit on and connect both land masses with a bridge:


And a shot from above:


So that's the current status. I built a stand out of 2x4s (more like 1.5x3.5s but who is measuring) and the tank will go there to dry for a good month before anything else happens. I'll be leaving for Germany soon so even if the tank is ready to go in a week, I won't start it up since I want to be there during the beginning to make sure all is well.


Thank you for looking, and if you have any questions, or comments, I'd be more than happy to answer.
 
#15 ·
I did yes. I'll be in Germany soon, but I will get them very soon afterwards :D.

Wow this is going to end up looking pretty awesome, great work man!
Thank you very much.

I can't wait to see it finished! It looks good so far.
Thank you Val :) It will be nice. Especially with the combination of epiphytes and terrestrial animals.

WoW!!! EXCELLENT BUILD, man!! Amazing job.....I can hardly wait to see it finished and running. Nice work!
Thank you sir.
 
#18 ·
Very nice.....



Nice detailed thread, I'm sure it will help anyone else in the future who's considering these little shelled critters.

Everything looks phenomenal! I've always wondered what it took to make a "realistic" 3D type background in a tank.

Amazing to see how many little steps in addition to the planning/design are involved to even get slightly close to this. Hope the cork wood where the water is going to be stays in place. Those things are very light.

Look forward to seeing the completed setup once you add the plants & get the waterfall fully operational.

The crabs sneaking out for lunch/dinner will be a extra bonus.

  • Try to make a video when you get finally introduce the crabs to their new home.

  • Are you planning to do a "dry start" to give the plants a chance to grow out a bit?

  • I hope you were able to renovate & add a few more caves like Gordon suggested.


**In case anyone else doesn't know.......
GS foam = GREAT STUFF™ brand foam manufactured by the DOW Chemical Company available at most hardware stores.
 
#19 · (Edited)


Nice detailed thread, I'm sure it will help anyone else in the future who's considering these little shelled critters.

Everything looks phenomenal! I've always wondered what it took to make a "realistic" 3D type background in a tank.

Amazing to see how many little steps in addition to the planning/design are involved to even get slightly close to this. Hope the cork wood where the water is going to be stays in place. Those things are very light.

Look forward to seeing the completed setup once you add the plants & get the waterfall fully operational.

The crabs sneaking out for lunch/dinner will be a extra bonus.

  • Try to make a video when you get finally introduce the crabs to their new home.

  • Are you planning to do a "dry start" to give the plants a chance to grow out a bit?

  • I hope you were able to renovate & add a few more caves like Gordon suggested.


**In case anyone else doesn't know.......
GS foam = GREAT STUFF™ brand foam manufactured by the DOW Chemical Company available at most hardware stores.
Thank you MSG. I will be adding the PVC pipes once I have the substrate in. I figured I'll just push the pvc into the substrate at varying angles and see which ones the crabs take. I was also thinking a coco hut or two like for darts if they actually want a cave/hut.

I'll try to weigh down the cork bark once I fill it. I was thinking of tying a rock to the bottom of each ramp. The ledge itself is wedged into the background pretty tightly so I don't think it will move. I'll have to see what happens.

As far as starting the whole thing, I wanted to wait until I'm back, just to make sure everything will run smoothly.

BTW I love the crab :)
 
#20 · (Edited)
Bepflanzungsideen

I figured I'd just update a bit. There is no development in the build, but I thought maybe there are some orchid people on here that can evaluate my proposed fauna. I am planning to go for mainly orchids in the intermediate - warm temperature tolerance range.

I specifically like bulbophyllums, pleurothallis, lepanthes, masdevallia and haraella.

I'll just include a couple of pictures from around the web of some of the orchids I am looking to get. These are not final, nor all inclusive. I am planning to aesthetically cram as many orchids as I can. If anyone has any ideas or knows specifically that some of the orchids I am looking for won't work, let me know. Again, the pictures are not mine!

Aerangis luteo alba var. rhodosticta:


Madevallia haerradurae


Dryadella zebrina


Schoenorchis fragrans


Pleurothallis tribuloides


Pleurothallis resupinata


Masdevallia brachyura


Encyclia polybulbon


Dendrobium carronii


Ascocentrum pumilum


Barbosella handroi


Lepanthes calodictyon (this one is a huge maybe since it is supposed to be incredibly fragile and tends to not do well in vivaria; but my is it beautiful)


Bulbophyllum catelunatum


Haraella retrocalla


Jewel orchid: Macodes petola


Dendrobium lamayaiae


Bulbophyllum vinculibulbum


All of these are just ideas for leaf shape, color, and inflorescence. However, they are all similar as they are vivarium suited (more or less) and can take the warmer temperatures that I will be having. Again, these are not my pictures.
 
#23 · (Edited)
Great work so far! The crabs really lend themselves to vivaria designed in a similar way for dendrobatids (dart frogs) so that is a great place for info.

As for the orchids - what kind of lid is going to be on the tank? The amount of humidity and air flow will really dictate what will work and what won't. I definitely haven't tried all of the ones on your list, but I have tried a couple, and I know of others that have tried some related species with good luck.

There are a lot of very knowledgeable people on Dendroboard in regards to orchids and vivaria. I had the best luck with orchids once moving to something with lower humidity and more air movement - which is just fine for the crabs - but harder for some of the frogs.

Of the orchids you posted, my experience has been the following:

Madevallia haerradurae - I lost this one. I could never find the appropriate amount of moisture that the roots wanted. It was either to dry or too wet.

Pleurothallis tribuloides - I am still working to make this one happy. It is chugging along, but I haven't gotten it to flower yet. I recently moved it to a place in the tank to allow its roots to dry out more and a little further away from the light, and it is doing OK. We will see.

Lepanthes calodictyon - I have not tried any Lepanthes yet, as I was under the impression that they really need a night time temp drop to be happy. If you are on Facebook - check out Planted Glass Boxes. He does a lot with terrarium orchids - and in particular has a lot of experience with Lepanthes.

Haraella retrocalla - I haven't tried this one either, but I seem to remember that a lot of people used to have good success with Haraella odorata in vivs.

Macodes petola - Wonderful little orchid. In my hands it was one of the more demanding jewel orchids. But it should do well in the right place in the tank - this one will want more humidity - so keep it lower. Black Jungle is a good source for Jewel orchids.

Others you didn't list but I have had success with:

Pleurothallis allenii - really cool purple flowers, slender leaves
Pleurothallis grobyi - neat miniature
Pleurothallis microphylla - tiny leaves, great grower
Pleurothallis determannii - very neat shingling pleurothallid - hard to find for sale it seems
Platystele vellota - really cool clusters of tiny flowers
Pleurothallis niveoglobula - constant flowerer, small white ball shaped flowers
Stelis morganii - nice vining-type orchid - prolific flowerer
Zootrophion hirtzii and serpentinum - again, vining type-growth
Trichosalpinx chamleolepanthes "pendant" - small, vining type orchid with veined leaves. Really neat growth pattern.
Restrepia spp. - almost all of them will do well. Brachypus, antenniferum - I had good luck with these even in humid frog tanks.
Sophronitis cernua - This orchid looks stunning when it flowers in a viv - one of my favorites
 
#24 ·
I was planning to have a vent that goes the entire length of the lid. I will construct it out of no-see-um screen and the regular "home-made" screen frames you can get at home depot. I then wanted to use a glass lid with a hole in one side in the front, either left or right (I have no idea which would be better) and attach a 12V computer fan to it that will turn on during the day randomly to aid in air exchange. I was hoping that that would work.

I am not yet clear on the exact dimensions, and I have to find a place in Boston that can custom make the glass and especially be able to drill it.

I was thinking of constructing the top like this (crappy paint version):


Will this work? Will this be too much or too little ventilation? Also, should I have one plate or two plates of glass for the top (length is 30", width would be 9")? Any ideas are welcome.
 
#26 ·
I think it will work - but you are just going to have to keep a close eye on all of the orchids and adjust their position in the tank as needed. You will probably lose some - but that is the challenge with growing orchids in tanks.

I think a single pane 5/16 or 1/4 should be fine; I wouldn't go 1/8" if you are going to put the light on it.

Is there a reason you are going to use No-See Um mesh and not something with bigger holes? Is it just because you plan on feeding a lot of FFs? The small holes will limit airflow more.
 
#27 ·
I heard that FFs do present a good source of nutrition and that the crabs enjoy catching them. I am not at all attached to the possibility of having to culture FFs, but that was the reason for the no see um. If I don't need FFs and crickets, springtails, isopods, worms, and dry food work then I don't see a reason why I couldn't go with larger mesh and allow for more airflow.

Will it matter which side I put the fan? Also, how often should I turn it on and off?
 
#28 ·
What did you use to cover up the egg crates? Is that all great stuff?

Also, I suggest some mosss for the caves. Java would look good both in and out of the water, so long as it is wet. Also, are you going to stock it with anything besides the crabs?

It looks great! I'll definately keep watching this.
 
#29 ·
Thank you!

All of the starter plants have been, or will be shipped within the next week or so. I am very much looking forward to getting this project moving, since it's been a while. The good thing about letting it sit so long is that any hint of a glue smell is gone (for now at least). Hopefully I'll be able to plant (and seed) this weekend.

The orchids won't ship out until next week though. That part I am very much looking forward to. Hopefully, I won't immediately kill them since I have very little orchid experience.

The egg crate is covered in weed block mesh/fabric stuff. Looking back though, I'd suggest screen rather than weed block since screen drains better.

There will be moss along the background (I have tropical moss already ordered and it should arrive soon). I will furthermore plant java moss and HC and H. sibthorpioides along the waters edge along with crypts in the marginal zone. I'll just see what happens.

I am planning to put some guppies into the water feature. Initially, I wanted to stock it with some wild bettas, but I heard that the crabs enjoy catching fish, and that wouldn't be very desirable with bettas. Eventually I'll also stock some RCS. At least that's the plan for now. Who knows how it'll change. Potentially, I was also thinking a small school of habrosus but that's definitely not the immediate goal nor plan.
 
#30 ·
The first shipment of plants arrived. Finally, after a long wait, I will be able to continue this project. I will be planting today. Next week, the orchids should arrive.

Regardless, here are some of the plants I have so far:

Korean Rock Fern


Bromeliad Wee willy


Bromeliad Chiquita Linda plus pup :)


Button Fern


Assorted Tillandsias


Dischidia ruscifolia


Peperomia Noid


Peperomia mini melon


I also have some selaginella, HC and some marginals waiting to be planted. For the background, I got some tropical moss mix that can be "painted" on by adding some water.
 
#31 ·
Plants are finally in, the waterfall is running and the substrate is seeded with springtails. I have an orchid order pending, that should arrive Friday and then eventually, I'll add some emersed bucephalandras along the waterfall and let them spread on their own. The moss mix for the background is currently brown and dead/dormant. Eventually, all the background should be covered in moss. As time goes by, apart from adding the residents, I'll add some more epiphytes. Hopefully, I can get some nice lemmaphyllum ferns or some microgramma, but all of those plans are dependent on the orchids, and how well those grow in.

I haven't quite decided what critters I should keep in the water. Since the crabs apparently eat fish, I think guppies should be safe. I was also thinking about cory habrosus or other small bottom dwellers. Who knows.

For now enough rambling. Here are some shots:





Brom wee willy


I'll update more later this week when the orchids are here. Enjoy, and as always, any comments or questions are more than welcome.
 
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