110 Gallon Discus Tank Sump w/eheims & HOTs
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Old 03-19-2006, 01:34 PM   #1
DiabloCanine
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110 Gallon Discus Tank Sump w/eheims & HOTs


I had been wanting to do a journal on my sump for some time. I was asked to submit one on another forum and since it is now just a copy and paste I will post it here too. This is a 30 gallon sump on my 110 gallon planted discus tank. I started out with an oversize wet/dry system which outgassed the CO2 more than I wanted. This sump has evolved with me spending a lot of time and money experimenting. I now have the sump tweaked where I want it. I will try to add why I used and did what I did with the various changes I made. A wet/dry filter came with my acrylic 110 tank, the tank/stand/canopy/sump was made by Ostrom Manufacturing in Ohio. I specified an oversize wet/dry filter and you will see it leaves very little room for hardware. The first thing I did was pitch the bio balls, drip tray and egg crate.

A disclaimer, everything that follows is my opinion and I do not wish to debate my opinion. If you like something you see below, try it, that is how I got my sump where it is. It may work for you, it may not.



Here is the pipe that sits in the sump and connects to the overflow. I installed the ball valves to assist me with water changes. I also extended the pipe so it goes all the way to the bottom of the sump and put a 90 degree fitting, this cuts down on the surface turbulence which can cause CO2 outgassing.



Here is another pic on the overflow pipe showing better detail of the ball valves used for water changes.



This is how I do water changes, hook a garden hose to the fitting, turn the ball valves and the sump drains. How does this happen? The ball valve on the left allows the water to go from the overflow to the sump, when it is closed no water enters the sump. When the ball valve on the right is opened, it allows the water to go from the overflow out the garden hose to a drain. The pump in the sump keeps pumping the water out of the sump, into the main tank, into the overflow, down the standpipe and out the garden hose. Piece of cake water changes, all I have to do is turn the pump off when the sump is empty. Notice in the pictures that contain plumbing that all plumbing is located over the sump, get a plumbing leak, water falls into the sump.



This is the return pipe, the piece closet to you hooks to the pump. Notice the flex tubing. I used this to ensure pump vibrations are not transfered to the main tank through the hard plumbing. This will happen with hard plumbing, you may not see the results, but the fish do.



The side closest to you is where the return connects to the main tank. Notice the check valve which keeps water from back siphoning through the return line during pump failure or power loss. The result? Allows me to keep the water level in the sump higher, more water is considered a bonus by me. The next 2 photos illustrate my sump water level.



Water level with pump running.



Water level with pump off, sump can hold 30 gallons, I keep 25 gallons in it, when pump is off about 3 gallons drain from the main tank.



Ever looked into an overflow? Looks pretty nasty doesn't it? It is full of beneficial bacteria.



Durso standpipe. This was made for me by Richard Durso. Notice it is oversized (bigger than the overflow opening). Richard has done many tests and knows what will work best for different size tanks. Using a Durso standpipe eliminates the toilet flushing sound that overflows create. Ever heard it? Can be very annoying and will draw quick negative comments from family/viewers.

Next I will show some pics of the equipment in the sump and try to explain why I use what I use:



Mag Drive 7 pump. I tried to use a Mag 5 pump to lower the flow, lowered it too much for me. I get close to 600 gph with the Mag 7. I have about 8 feet of plumbing on the return and a lot of turns which takes a lot of power away from the pump.



Powered CO2 reactor. I have found it is very effective if kept vertical and very ineffective if kept horizontal. I had this horizontal at first to keep the pump under the water line. When I raised the water level I was able to set this vertical and was amazed with the difference, very noticeable.



Milwaukee SMS122 PH monitor/controller. You should know what this does.



My 5 pound CO2 cylinder and regulator. Only size that will fit, you will see later. I use a Milwaukee regulator with a JBJ bubble counter (has a built in check valve, the Milwaukee bubble counter does not). I bought 4 CO2 cylinders at once and got kinda a price break for doing so online. At first I was going to use 2 cylinders on 2 tanks and keep 2 filled spares. Well this evolved into me using all the cylinders on different tanks with no spares. No spares, no worry. I was driving about 30 minutes and paying close to $30 for cylinder refills. On day I discovered a gas company right down the street from my house. They swap out your cylinder for one of theirs that is filled. Well I just purchased brand new aluminum cylinders and was not about to swap one of my brand new shiny cylinders for a steel one that had been beat around for years and probably had a hydrostat inspection due soon. Well I learned from this guy that all 5 pound cylinders are aluminum and he had new ones too. He would take my cylinder and give me a new one filled for $10. Guess what I did? BTW, a 5 pound cylinder lasts me at least 6 months, so why the need for a spare?



Eheim liquidoser. I use it to dose my micro/macro trace elements. I use the PMDD formula that can be purchased online from Greg Watson. I highly recommend anyone serious about planted tanks take some time and look into the PMDD method and explore Greg's site. Why do I use the liquidoser? Because if I do not have to manually put ferts in my tank, guess what I'm doing? I bet you guessed watching my discus instead!



Powered dual sponge filter. This sits in my sump and provides biological filtration. If you would like one call John at JEHMCO. You may need to show him this pic, he custom made it for me after spending a lot of time discussing my setup with me (hopefully he will say, Oh yea, I remember that). If he sells it, he gets my business, John was very helpful and spent a lot of time on the phone helping me with this sponge filter which cost me less than $50. How many places do you find customer service like that over the phone anymore? I love this sponge filter!



Temp alarm. Put this in the sump for obvious reasons. Oh yea, did I mention that one day I woke up and found my tank temp close to 98 degrees?



Two 400 watt Theo heaters. I used to have two 250 watt jager heaters but they just would not cut the mustard during water changes. I no longer have problems getting the water heated during water changes now that I have 800 watts available.



Heater controller. No way to synchronize two heaters without a heater controller. Again, I purchased this from JEHMCO. And yes John spent a lot of time on the phone with me discussing my needs to make sure he sold me the best product for my needs. The heater controller provides power to a GFCI outlet that both heaters are plugged into. The heaters turn on and off together, neither one works harder than the other. Note: set the heater thermostats to 4 degrees over your desired temps. This is a precaution in case the heater controller sticks on, your fish will not be cooked if the heater thermostats are set. Most people just crank the heater thermostats to the limit and let the heater controller turn them on and off. As a review, what happens if the heater controller sticks on and your heaters are set to the max? And how much did you invest in those discus? I'm not going to tell you what this setup costs, go look on JEHMCOs website or better yet call John, I bet you get one!



Two Magnum HOT filters. I use these for chemical filtration and they hang on the sump. They are charged with Seachem Renew. Why did I chose Magnum HOT? Easy, they were the only thing that would fit and believe me they just barely do.



This would be my UPS and once again I picked this kind because it was the only one that would fit. This will keep your pump going if a power failure hits you. Do not plug heaters in these. They will last up to 8 hours running a pump and will be drained in about an hour if connected to heaters. If you have a power failure you need the pump way more than the heaters for your fish's welfare.



My GFCI bank. I decided to do this one day after getting frustrated with the wire nest I had under my tank. Starting from the left:

Bank one: Top is the digital timer for my moon lights. Only one way to describe moon lights, Bitchin! If you haven't seen a tank lit by moonlights at night, you do not know what you are missing. Ever watch your nocturnal fish? I sit in front of this tank just as much with the moon lights on as I do with the day lights on. Bottom is the power adapter for my Milwaukee PH monitor controller.

Bank two: Top is for the pump on the powered sponge filter. Bottom is to provide power to the CO2 solenoid and the powered reactor. The black plug underneath the beige plug goes to the ph monitor/controller, it acts as a switch and is turned on/off by the ph monitor/controller.

Bank three: This is the GFCI that is powered by the heater controller. Each receptacle has one Theo 400 watt heater plugged into it.

Bank four: Top is the digital timer for my Icecap ballast that powers the 4x95 watt T-12 bulbs. Bottom is connected to a power strip that powers the Magnum HOTs.

Banks one, two, and four are plugged into the always on receptacles of the UPS. The heater controller and UPS are plugged into the wall. The Mag Drive pump is the only thing plugged into the battery side of the UPS. So during water changes, I trip banks one and two. No need to trip 4, doesn't matter if the lights are on during water changes and I turn the Magnum HOTs off at their power strip. Bank three is left on to power the heaters, heaters are placed in the bottom of the sump and are never dry unless I am vacuuming the sump, then I turn Bank three off also. I turn the pump off at the front panel of the UPS when the sump is drained.



The right side of my stand, look a little crowded? Believe me there is no room to spare in my stand!



Picture of the sump put all together minus the Magnum HOTs that hang on the front of the sump.



Pic of my wilds munching, pigs with fins!



Cruisin around in their younger days.



Recent rescape of the tank, has grown out a lot since this photo was taken (my discus are pouting behind the forest on the right, got mad at me for changing the scenery!).

Hope you enjoyed, I'm ready for questions......DC

Last edited by DiabloCanine; 01-15-2007 at 06:41 AM.. Reason: new title
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Old 12-30-2006, 05:17 PM   #2
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This is incredible planning and workmanship.
I cant belive no one else has commented on your work.

Excellent !

Do you have a picture of how the Eheim Liquidoser is set up in your system ?

Thanks
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Old 12-30-2006, 06:56 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackfrost View Post
This is incredible planning and workmanship.
I cant belive no one else has commented on your work.

Excellent !

Do you have a picture of how the Eheim Liquidoser is set up in your system ?

Thanks
I had to resurrect and repost all my DIY projects, the site they were stored on got hacked. Most of my projects have lots of views, few comments. No biggee, I post them to give other folks ideas anyway. I had the Liquid Doser setting on top of the sump. The piece on the left of the Liquid Doser is off a Turbo Twist and attaches the Liquid Doser to the rim of the sump. I do not use it anymore, since I am doing 50% water changes (60 gallons) 3 times a week I just dump 25ml of TMG after each water change.......DC
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Old 12-30-2006, 07:49 PM   #4
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Very nice DC, but no surprise there! If I ever run a sump, I hope this thread is around to review. PS, I'll probably send that JBJ all in one on Monday.
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Old 12-30-2006, 08:42 PM   #5
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wow thats really nice and well explained i need to remember this once i decide to get a bigger tank and setup a sump. I like your work alot DC !
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Old 12-31-2006, 08:01 AM   #6
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Default No sorcery; merely the precaution of a Universal Drug Antidote PILL!

Holy atomic pile, Batman! What happened to the Discus tank? I was simply going to rescape this tank with Manzanita wood. RMC is babysitting the fish until next week to give me time to get it done. I pulled the sump out and had a 20 gallon close and tried a fit check. Hmmm, that idea to put a smaller sump with 2 cannister filters in the stand is looking good. Sooooo, my old sump setup is history. I will be drilling this tank on both ends for 2 Eheim 2215 filters. The 30 gallon sump is being replaced with a 20 high sump. All the equipment will still fit in the 20 gallon sump but I will have added cannister filtration to remove particulate matter off the bottom of the tank. Here are pics of the mess so far. Hmmm, wonder if I am the first to do this? More to come.......DC





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Old 12-31-2006, 01:36 PM   #7
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I only have one wish : I wish you were my neighbour .
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Old 12-31-2006, 06:00 PM   #8
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GO DC GO! You're cracking us up... So are those ceramic tiles you attached the M wood to? Did you drill and screw or just glue?
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Old 12-31-2006, 06:14 PM   #9
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Hi,

Nice setup you have there. Just becareful with check valves or anything mechanical preventing water from siphoning back in to the sump during a power outage. Murphy's law might happen and you could come home to a wet carpet.
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Old 12-31-2006, 07:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Very nice DC, but no surprise there! If I ever run a sump, I hope this thread is around to review. PS, I'll probably send that JBJ all in one on Monday.
Kewl, it will go on one of the new racks in work; four 20 highs with a 55 gallon sump.

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wow thats really nice and well explained i need to remember this once i decide to get a bigger tank and setup a sump. I like your work alot DC !
Thanks....DC
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Old 12-31-2006, 07:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distrbd View Post
I only have one wish : I wish you were my neighbour .
The best part about being my neighbor is being down the street from RMC.

Quote:
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GO DC GO! You're cracking us up... So are those ceramic tiles you attached the M wood to? Did you drill and screw or just glue?
The tiles are drilled and siliconed. RMC drilled them for me, used a drill press and kept them underwater. Not too sure about the bit, think it was a spade.

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Hi,

Nice setup you have there. Just becareful with check valves or anything mechanical preventing water from siphoning back in to the sump during a power outage. Murphy's law might happen and you could come home to a wet carpet.
Already have check valves, etc., see above......DC
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Old 01-07-2007, 09:37 AM   #12
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I have everything shoehorned back into the stand. The eheim 2215s were a breeze to hook up. Currently, the tank is being leak checked.

Everything fit, I now have 2 eheim 2215s, 2 Magnum HOTs, and a 20 gallon sump for filtration.



Here is the plumbing feeding the eheims. Drilling 1/2" acrylic is time consuming.



Tomorrow I will drain the tank, finish tidying up the electrical, and take some better pics.....DC
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Old 01-07-2007, 03:27 PM   #13
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DC,

I am somewhat new to this forum or for that matter any forum. I have been doing fish on and off for sometime now and have always been partial to discus. I have taken a similar approach with my tank since it is also acrylic and has an overflow. Like you I have a sump but from the beginning always thought that a good canister filter needed to be a part of the filtration setup. I like your disclaimer in the beginning of this thread that your approach is what works for you and everything presented is just your opinion. There are any number of ways which one can arrive at a solution that works and I thank you for sharing your ideas. We differ slightly in our implementation but have the same goals in mind.

I have thought about doing exactly what you just did with respect the particulates on the bottom of the tank but always worried about whether or not I would introduce stress points where the holes are drilled that could lead to the acrylic cracking after the tank is filled with water. Also, correct me if I am wrong but I assume that your statement regarding the plumping (inlet) that feeds your eheims is with respect to the outside plumping and the returns are the lower inside pipes. Or is it a closed system with the inside lines feeding your eheims and the outside lines being the returns. When I think about it, the latter makes more sense if you had ball values on the inlet lines (bottom pipes) that you could close when cleaning the filters. Also easy to prime the filters. Anyway, look forward to seeing more.

JT

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Old 01-07-2007, 04:30 PM   #14
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This quite the set up you have going. I really like the way it is layed out. When Iget my big tank I will be asking you some questions.

MAHA
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Old 01-08-2007, 04:20 AM   #15
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Leak checks were good. Worked on tidying up the electrical today. Here is a pic of the new RH side. All these pics are taken from the back of the stand.



I modified it from the origional setup. Both eheims are now plugged into this bank so I moved the CO2 to the LH side.



The portable UV Sterilizer is kinda permanant now, is a PITA to get out.



The sump plumbing has turned into a chore, still working on it, should be done by tomorrow.



Here is a pic of the feed and return for the eheim 2215 on the RH side.



LH side.



Need to finish up the sump plumbing and make a new back fit, will be ready for manzanita wood and substrate next......DC
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