Which is important for soft/hardwater plants? GH OR KH??
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Fertilizers and Water Parameters


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2003, 06:13 PM   #1
hubbahubbahehe
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Default

When you talk about softwater plants and hardwater plants and their preferences, which value are you referring to? KH or GH?????
hubbahubbahehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-23-2003, 06:22 PM   #2
DLeDeaux
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
DLeDeaux's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 377
Send a message via ICQ to DLeDeaux Send a message via AIM to DLeDeaux Send a message via MSN to DLeDeaux
Default

Typically, when I think of water hardness, I am thinking in terms of KH. But then, I'm more interested in the buffering capacity of my water since I have fairly soft water.
__________________
--- Dave ---
DLeDeaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2003, 06:30 PM   #3
hubbahubbahehe
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Default

when you hear that i.e. eusteralis stellata needs soft water, so is the KH that needs to be soft?
__________________
Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2003, 07:53 PM   #4
GulfCoastAquarian
Planted Tank VIP
 
GulfCoastAquarian's Avatar
 
PTrader: (6/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 3,578
Send a message via ICQ to GulfCoastAquarian Send a message via Yahoo to GulfCoastAquarian
Default

Yes, meaning less than 3-4dKH. I've tried growing it in 7dKH water and it just wouldn't budge.
__________________
- Sam P -
plantedtanker in limbo - all tanks currently in storage
GulfCoastAquarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2003, 07:57 PM   #5
hubbahubbahehe
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Default

Okay, so let me try to understand this, the dGH , General hardness doesn't matter to softwater and hardwater plants alike.

the dKH needs to be around 3-4 dKH to grow the majority plants.
__________________
Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2003, 10:50 PM   #6
Wasserpest
Are these real?
 
Wasserpest's Avatar
 
PTrader: (175/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 15,092
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hubbahubbahehe
Okay, so let me try to understand this, the dGH , General hardness doesn't matter to softwater and hardwater plants alike.

the dKH needs to be around 3-4 dKH to grow the majority plants.
Nah, I think you misinterpreted this. There are very very few plants that need low KH to grow nicely, and the majority of plants will grow fine with whatever flows out of your tap.
Wasserpest is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2003, 10:56 PM   #7
ddaquaria
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 222
Send a message via AIM to ddaquaria
Default

They are both important. KH is buffering capability. I try to keep mine above 3 using a bag of coral in the filter. GH is like trace minerals (magneseium, etc). After using RO in my tank for an extended amount of time, I started noticing problems with plants that adding iron or daily traces was not helping. ONce I took measurements, the KH was great but the GH was 1 or below. After that I started using RO right mixed with my RO. Growth just sprang up and the balance has really heped the tank.
ddaquaria is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 12:49 AM   #8
m.lemay
Planted Tank Guru
 
m.lemay's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Naugatuck, CT.
Posts: 2,647
Default

Kh is comprised of carbonates and bi carbonates which increase buffering capacity. Ghs main components are calcium primarily and magnesium secondarily, other metals such as iron also play into the gh equation but to a much lesser degree. The GH calcium/magnesium ratio can vary significantly in different geographic locations, but in most areas, calcium is more predominant.

As to your question about soft water plants, I've been doing some research and it seems that TDS (total dissolved solids) seems to be the parameter to measure. I've had some blyxa japonica in my tank that pretty much rotted as it grew. After reading a little bit I decided to cut down on my micro dosing and it's begun to take off. I also have some Blue Rams that I'm trying to breed, so called soft water fish, And it seems that the eggs won't hatch unless the water is 100ppm TDS or less.

Theres also been a lot of talk about TDS being more important than PH when it comes to acclimating new fish. It seems that differences in TDS are more critical than differences in PH from one tank to another.

I'll be writing an article on this soon.


Marcel
__________________
FILSTAR Pimp #2

75 gal heavily planted,50/50 Black beauty,Eco-complete substrate, Pressurised CO2 with solenoid, ph controller, AB Reactor 1000, 330 watts 9325K GE PC lighting,Ehiem Liquidoser, 2-Filstar xp3 canisters.
m.lemay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 01:47 AM   #9
hubbahubbahehe
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Default

*sigh* hehe, okay, the one factor in this whole crazy mess that I haven't gotten a full grasp of is water quality. So I guess I'll fill you in on my situation and maybe I could get help that way. My tap water is:

Alkalinity: 115 ppm as CaCO3 6.4 dGH (at most 10)
Calcium 25 ppm
Hardness 131 ppm as CaCO3 7.3 gKH (at most 10)
Magnesium 16 ppm
pH 8.1
Potassium 2.9 ppm
Sodium 52 ppm
Nitrate 2.4 ppm
Sulfate 31 ppm


These are my conditions straight out of the tap. I am adding DIY CO2 and the plants pearl like crazy during the day and I have enough light, i know (3+ watts/gallon)

If I could get away with it, I would really just like to use this tap water, because it's so much easier for me and as I don't have much time and money

What do you all think? Can I succeed?
__________________
Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 02:01 AM   #10
hubbahubbahehe
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Default

oh by the way, my TDS is 321 ppm
hubbahubbahehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 11:04 AM   #11
aquaverde
Wannabe Guru
 
aquaverde's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Mid-Hudson Valley, New York
Posts: 1,409
Default

Marcel- how do you determine TDS?

James
__________________
James
aquaverde is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 12:52 PM   #12
GulfCoastAquarian
Planted Tank VIP
 
GulfCoastAquarian's Avatar
 
PTrader: (6/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Winston-Salem, NC
Posts: 3,578
Send a message via ICQ to GulfCoastAquarian Send a message via Yahoo to GulfCoastAquarian
Default

Joey, you can definitely succeed with your water. It is only slightly harder than mine. I've been able to prolifically grow just about any plant with the exception of Eusteralis stellata, Hottonia palustris and Rotala Wallichii.
__________________
- Sam P -
plantedtanker in limbo - all tanks currently in storage
GulfCoastAquarian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 03:51 PM   #13
hubbahubbahehe
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Default

Heya Sam,

I know this is off topic but your wife is HOT. Way to go, man. I could use some advice with women, lol.
__________________
Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 03:58 PM   #14
hubbahubbahehe
Wannabe Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fremont, California
Posts: 1,315
Default

Okay, okay, back to plants. *phew* Okay, so now I know that my hardness is okay, but my ph is 8.1!!!!! In the past, I have tried lowering it with Seachem products, but that just created all sorts of algae problems. I did a little looking through this forum, and found that it is a BIG NO,NO; never use chemicals to alter ph. And from what I understand, it is far better to do more frequent water changes than to do fewer ones with a RO/tap mix (thanks, lanstar, HairAlgae Free 135) But to be honest, I'm still a little skeptical because I read that at ph8.1, a lot of nutrients do not become available for plants.

STill confused.
__________________
Eheim Pimp Club Member #32
hubbahubbahehe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-24-2003, 04:32 PM   #15
DLeDeaux
Planted Tank Obsessed
 
DLeDeaux's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 377
Send a message via ICQ to DLeDeaux Send a message via AIM to DLeDeaux Send a message via MSN to DLeDeaux
Default

Obviously the addition of CO2 will lower your pH somewhat. In addition to that, I believe running peat moss through your filter will lower pH as well.
__________________
--- Dave ---
DLeDeaux is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Here's a great how to lorax Riparium/Terrarium/Vivarium 3 06-09-2009 12:24 AM
terrestrial paludarium plants robitreef Riparium/Terrarium/Vivarium 8 02-19-2006 04:43 AM
Planted Tank Chat Transcripts! KyleT General Planted Tank Discussion 0 02-26-2004 09:20 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:17 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012