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Old 03-11-2013, 04:11 AM   #16
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Been there, done that, failed miserably. Neos are good, tigers (super and OEBT) are a no-go. Tap water is pH 7.6, KH 5, GH 6 or 7, TDS 117.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:36 AM   #17
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Default Can you buffer RO water without expensive substrates?

I'm testing now to see if I can do this. I've had CRS in a tank like you described, relatively inert substrate, remineralized and topped off. Nothing else.

I'm keeping TDS, gH and kH constant.

Things have been good for a month now. I see molts and there have been zero deaths. I count daily.

I think they're all sub-adults. I'll be watching to see if they begin breeding.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:31 PM   #18
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I think the result will vary, you have to understand RO coming out from your system is not the same as the RO from mine. The water source still plays some role. Sure, TDS will be similar (near 0) as anything size bigger than the "holes" on the membrane will be filtered out, but what about the difference in electronic state (or whatever it's called in English, the H+ and OH- and other ion thingy), there are things that don't get filtered out by your RO.

For example, my tap has PH7.8, my RO freshly out of the system is PH 6.5, but if I age it for a few days then it creeps back to 7.0 - 7.2, if I age it even longer (weeks) then it creeps back to 7.8 or just a tad lower. If your tap is more acidic, please do an experiment to compare and share. I understand PH is very unstable in RO due to low TDS, but my observation is based on repeated tries, and very consistent.

Just my guess/theory, not claiming to be correct but that's what I'll stick to until proven otherwise.
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Old 03-11-2013, 03:41 PM   #19
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I'm testing now to see if I can do this. I've had CRS in a tank like you described, relatively inert substrate, remineralized and topped off. Nothing else.

I'm keeping TDS, gH and kH constant.

Things have been good for a month now. I see molts and there have been zero deaths. I count daily.

I think they're all sub-adults. I'll be watching to see if they begin breeding.
Good luck Mabj. So for my test of keeping gh/tds consistent and not worry about pH is going well with my SSS's. No deaths, berries, babies, molting, more berries. I setup my tank about the middle of December after my active substrate was going wonky and had to move all my shrimp from a 5pH to a 7pH tank. Most were still juvis, so in 3 months I already have a few batches of babies.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:41 PM   #20
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Default Can you buffer RO water without expensive substrates?

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Good luck Mabj. So for my test of keeping gh/tds consistent and not worry about pH is going well with my SSS's. No deaths, berries, babies, molting, more berries. I setup my tank about the middle of December after my active substrate was going wonky and had to move all my shrimp from a 5pH to a 7pH tank. Most were still juvis, so in 3 months I already have a few batches of babies.
Thanks buddy. Glad your test is going well. They are truly thriving right now in mine. Ive never seen better looking shells in my tanks.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:43 PM   #21
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Thanks buddy. Glad your test is going well. They are truly thriving right now in mine. Ive never seen better looking shells in my tanks.
Me too. The less acidic water I think isn't eating away or pitting the shells as much. ~7pH seems to be good and they are so active in the water, all the time. Never sitting still, always around and aboot.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:48 PM   #22
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Default Can you buffer RO water without expensive substrates?

Mine love climbing the sides to eat that algae.

There's usually one swimming around in the floaters and the rest are picking through moss.

I'm not sure exactly of their usual behavior. My first CRS.

It may also help that I have FSS. It doesn't buffer much, but it buffers enough that I think it keeps it constant.

I consider it a relatively inert substrate though.
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Old 03-11-2013, 04:56 PM   #23
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Maybe my understanding is wrong, but GH is the hardness and KH is the ability to buffer, correct?

So, if you have RO water that is pH 6.5 like in my case with 0 GH/KH, then why can't you increase the KH to a level that keeps the pH stable? Of course remineralize to an appropriate level as well. I know pH will change in doing this, but I'd guess it would still be much lower than my 7.6 tap water. I think what I'm after is a tank of water with pH at 7. Seems to be a good middle ground for the shrimp I want. I may try mixing water as well and see how stable that is over time.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:00 PM   #24
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Default Can you buffer RO water without expensive substrates?

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Maybe my understanding is wrong, but GH is the hardness and KH is the ability to buffer, correct?

So, if you have RO water that is pH 6.5 like in my case with 0 GH/KH, then why can't you increase the KH to a level that keeps the pH stable? Of course remineralize to an appropriate level as well. I know pH will change in doing this, but I'd guess it would still be much lower than my 7.6 tap water. I think what I'm after is a tank of water with pH at 7. Seems to be a good middle ground for the shrimp I want. I may try mixing water as well and see how stable that is over time.
The issue here is most 'Bee' shrimp only will handle up to 0-2 KH.

It is hard to get a good balance. I hope you find something that works for everybody.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:47 PM   #25
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The issue here is most 'Bee' shrimp only will handle up to 0-2 KH.
Didn't know that. Perhaps that was the issue with my super tigers. I kept (tried to atleast) in my neo tank with tap water which has a KH of 5. They didn't last too long.

Is there an active substrate that keeps the pH a little higher? High 6's up to around 7?
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:56 PM   #26
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Default Can you buffer RO water without expensive substrates?

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Didn't know that. Perhaps that was the issue with my super tigers. I kept (tried to atleast) in my neo tank with tap water which has a KH of 5. They didn't last too long.

Is there an active substrate that keeps the pH a little higher? High 6's up to around 7?
You could try FSS, but it depends on exactly what you put in it water wise.

I don't know of anything that moves it up and holds it around there.

Tigers, like BTOEs OBETs and the like can handle up to like 6 kH. So I'm not sure where super tigers lie. Names confuse me sometimes.


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