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Old 03-06-2013, 03:52 AM   #16
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My aunt has 2 Oscars in a 75g bare bottom tank with just a small HOB filter. The only thing in the tank is a piece of 10" diameter pvc pipe that serves as a hiding spot. The Oscars have got to be at least 15 years old and she claims that she has never once done a water change, just tops it off when it's low and scrapes any scum/algae off the walls occasionally. She also does not check water parameters, and tops it off with tap water without treating. The fish seem to be extremely healthy. She has a half dozen other tanks, from 10-55 gallons, many established for 5+ years that she maintains (or doesn;t maintain) the same way. May be dumb luck, or may be we're too worried with water parameters.

I personally wouldnt run a tank that way, but she does and it must work because she never seems to have any issues.

Wow. I suddenly wish I knew nothing at all about my tank.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:54 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indychus View Post
My aunt has 2 Oscars in a 75g bare bottom tank with just a small HOB filter. The only thing in the tank is a piece of 10" diameter pvc pipe that serves as a hiding spot. The Oscars have got to be at least 15 years old and she claims that she has never once done a water change, just tops it off when it's low and scrapes any scum/algae off the walls occasionally. She also does not check water parameters, and tops it off with tap water without treating. The fish seem to be extremely healthy. She has a half dozen other tanks, from 10-55 gallons, many established for 5+ years that she maintains (or doesn;t maintain) the same way. May be dumb luck, or may be we're too worried with water parameters.

I personally wouldnt run a tank that way, but she does and it must work because she never seems to have any issues.
there is a very big difference between surviving and thriving. i have no doubt that her fish survive in the conditions they are in; judging by your description though i'd say that they would likely be much healthier with regular water changes. if nothing else they would likely display better coloration and would have had better growth.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:55 AM   #18
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just kidding Indychus. That's exactly what I'm talking about. In her case the algae keeps the nitrogen low enough and nothing else is really that important.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:55 AM   #19
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Is 15 old for an oscar?
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:58 AM   #20
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just kidding Indychus. That's exactly what I'm talking about. In her case the algae keeps the nitrogen low enough and nothing else is really that important.
bile acid hormones and aggregation pheromones are not removed by algae
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:58 AM   #21
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I smoke, drink, eat nothing but fat, sugar and salt and generally only take a break from abusing my health in order to neglect it. I am alive but it does not mean I am as healthy as I could be.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:59 AM   #22
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bile acid hormones are not removed by algae
Huh? Is that an oscar thing? I have only ever had goldifsh. (dont judge)
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:01 AM   #23
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Long lived hormones building up in the water I assume? How many such issues can there be in a tank where the water is not changed? I am guessing a lot but some would say no.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:02 AM   #24
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Huh? Is that an oscar thing? I have only ever had goldifsh. (dont judge)
it is a fish thing. many, if not all fish release aggregation pheromones in order to effect the fish around them. it has been proven that certain fish release aggregation pheromones which limit the growth, and breeding of their potential competitors or change their competition's behavior

EDIT: i had a long conversation with one of seachem's biologists one day on this (i'm a microbiologist myself so it was rather interesting); purigen has the POTENTIAL to remove some of these pheromones, the fact of the matter is that it does not do so efficiently as far as i can see though. some say activated carbon has the potential to remove them also, and just off the top of my head i want to say it likely can via adsorption
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:03 AM   #25
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I agree, but I think at this point a water change would probably be lethal. She's old school country and does not hesitate to pull a fish out of her pond and throw it in an aquarium or vice versa. She had more oscars at one time, but ran out of room for them as they matured, so there's now 5-6 tiger oscars in her pond. She traps minnows to feed the oscars in the tank. Always interesting talking to her about her tanks. She's not oblivious to the chemistry going on, in fact far from it... she just does what works for her.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:05 AM   #26
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And as far as growth, both fish are probably 12" They are a bit dull in color compared to other tiger oscars I've seen, but otherwise look good.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:07 AM   #27
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And as far as growth, both fish are probably 12" They are a bit dull in color compared to other tiger oscars I've seen, but otherwise look good.
by the time you reach the size i assumed they were aggregation pheromones are a moot point as far as growth goes. coloration and behavior are likely the only things being effected at this point

EDIT: sorry if i seem a little snippy, i truly do enjoy conversations like this; i just tend to be a very straightforward in how i present my points (not to mention multitasking is impossible when it comes to writing out coherent thoughts)
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:09 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by pmcarbrey View Post
it is a fish thing. many, if not all fish release aggregation pheromones in order to effect the fish around them. it has been proven that certain fish release aggregation pheromones which limit the growth, and breeding of their potential competitors or change their competition's behavior
Oh yeah, I think I read some papers on that. stunting is not good.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:12 AM   #29
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Oh yeah, I think I read some papers on that. stunting is not good.
stunting is a slightly different issue; stunting is more often caused by a lack of growth space, it is very possible to have a fish be stunted yet be the only fish in a tank (IE: a common pleco in a 20L)

Note: aggregation pheromones DO effect the individual emitting them; it is assumed that they effect that individual to a lesser effect but i am unsure whether it has been tested with any degree of accuracy.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:12 AM   #30
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by the time you reach the size i assumed they were aggregation pheromones are a moot point as far as growth goes. coloration and behavior are likely the only things being effected at this point

EDIT: sorry if i seem a little snippy, i truly do enjoy conversations like this; i just tend to be a very straightforward in how i present my points (not to mention multitasking is impossible when it comes to writing out coherent thoughts)
SNIPPY?!?! Who you callin'... Oh you? Oh that's OK.

What's up with their behavior?
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Goldfish are among the worst fish for beginners.
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