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Old 03-11-2013, 05:14 AM   #1
Iotari
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Help with discolored plants


I need help determining what is causing some plants to discolor. I have a spec V with stock lighting, eco compete, and root tabs. I dose excel daily along with seachem iron (every 2 days) and flourish (weekly). So far no macronutrients, because i wasn't sure what my tap water was going to provide. Weekly 50% changes, 8 hour photoperiod. The tank is 3 weeks old, dwarf sag has been exploding with runners so its not all bad

Sorry for the cell phone pics but I cant get a good aquarium pic off my dSLR to save my life

Annubias

Amazon Sword

FTS
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:26 AM   #2
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Overall the plants look yellow which I would say nitrogen deficiency. Low nitrates will tell you whether that is the case or not. The one leaf with dark veins and yellow leaf is indicative of a magnesium deficiency. I would bet that you certainly need more nitrogen though possibly magnesium.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:27 AM   #3
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In my opinion, I would increase the photoperiod. It looks like they are washing out due to low light levels. Anubias have dropped leaves after a shift in lighting for me before and will eventually adapt and grow them back, just takes forever. Not sure what the stock LED lighting is like on the Spec V, but from the pics it looks decent. I'd just amp it up a bit and continue daily dosing of Excel to prevent any algal outbreaks. Usually a longer photoperiod will give me deeper greens in my plants.
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Old 03-11-2013, 05:45 AM   #4
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The stock light is pretty weak. I will increase the photoperiod, 9 or 10 hours? What level nitrate is ideal? The weekly waterchange has been keeping it around 10ppm. Been considering buying a fugeray but using CO2 is out of the budget for now, so I would need to be able to keep algae down and hope that the excel dosing is enough.
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Old 03-11-2013, 06:09 AM   #5
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I would try and keep the Nitrates where they are (10-20ppm) and increase the photoperiod to 10-12 hours. Might take some fine tuning as it goes along. Most of the Anubias I toss in my Tanganyikan tanks lose half their leaves over time as they adapt to the harder water. They eventually stop and begin putting on new ones, it is just frustrating during the initial introduction. With solid and regular Excel dosing you should be fine.
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Old 03-11-2013, 01:47 PM   #6
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Hello Io...

Don't make things too difficult. Here are a few things to think about: Stock lighting is good for providing light so you can see into the tank, but nothing else. Review the lighting needs of your plants and then provide it.

Plants in a new environment take weeks to establish good growth. Some will look poorly and then recover, some never do.

You don't need to dose several ferts at once. You can overdose your plants and that's as bad as not giving them enough nutrients. Dose one source of macro nutrients and one for micros, just according to instructions. After a few months, then change the ferts. Plants and animals do best with a variety.

Just a couple of thoughts.

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Old 03-11-2013, 04:47 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBradbury View Post
Hello Io...

Don't make things too difficult. Here are a few things to think about: Stock lighting is good for providing light so you can see into the tank, but nothing else. Review the lighting needs of your plants and then provide it.

Plants in a new environment take weeks to establish good growth. Some will look poorly and then recover, some never do.

You don't need to dose several ferts at once. You can overdose your plants and that's as bad as not giving them enough nutrients. Dose one source of macro nutrients and one for micros, just according to instructions. After a few months, then change the ferts. Plants and animals do best with a variety.

Just a couple of thoughts.

B
Unfortunately I don't agree with any of the above. (At least I am consistent!)

I don't know what size tank you have, because I don't know what a "spec V" is. The stock T8 light can be enough light if the tank isn't too tall, but it isn't always enough. As far as the plants are concerned you can't dose too much of any of the nutrients, until you start converting the water to brackish water from so many salts being added. The fish/shrimp will be harmed by really excessive overdoses, but not the plants. It isn't the "source" of the nutrients that is important, it is the dosing of a complete menu of the needed nutrients, in adequate amounts to meet the needs of the plants. Most of us dose the same chemicals for years on end - no variety at all. Read http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21944 for good information about fertilizing.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:21 PM   #8
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Decided I was sick of the useless stock lighting. I got a finnex fugeray 20. Cant wait to get it on the tank. Saw a prevous post on planted tank by bat_billy and its a perfect fit, see below for his pic.



Also after my last WC nitrates were <5ppm this morning so i dosed a little seachem nitrogen.
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Old 03-11-2013, 08:58 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoppy View Post
Unfortunately I don't agree with any of the above. (At least I am consistent!)

I don't know what size tank you have, because I don't know what a "spec V" is. The stock T8 light can be enough light if the tank isn't too tall, but it isn't always enough. As far as the plants are concerned you can't dose too much of any of the nutrients, until you start converting the water to brackish water from so many salts being added. The fish/shrimp will be harmed by really excessive overdoses, but not the plants. It isn't the "source" of the nutrients that is important, it is the dosing of a complete menu of the needed nutrients, in adequate amounts to meet the needs of the plants. Most of us dose the same chemicals for years on end - no variety at all. Read http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=21944 for good information about fertilizing.
Hello Hop...

Hard to believe you didn't agree with anything in my post, but you're the Guru. The Spec V is a small desktop tank with only enough lighting to grow small plants, not enough for the tank plants I keep or have seen on this forum. Stock lighting is what I call it, since it comes with the kit. Not sure there's another opinion, but maybe there is.

As far as the fertilizers go, I just dose according to the instructions. I don't want to dose too much, because that can interfere with normal plant growth, just like too much light can burn out a plant. The excess ferts would likely be wasted when I did my weekly water change.

I'm sure you know this stuff, you may just be testing me.

B
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Old 03-12-2013, 05:17 AM   #10
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Hello Hop...

.... I don't want to dose too much, because that can interfere with normal plant growth,
We never have "normal plant growth". We try to get healthy growth at the rate the light is driving the plants to grow.
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just like too much light can burn out a plant.
I have never heard of so much light so that it will "burn out a plant". More light makes the plants grow faster, as long as there are sufficient amounts of all of the needed nutrients available to support that growth rate. With less than sufficient amounts of any nutrients, and a mix of plants in the tank, the more aggressive growers may hog the nutrients, causing the less competitive plants to suffer, and causing algae to start.
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The excess ferts would likely be wasted when I did my weekly water change.
Fertilizers are cheap, so wasting them isn't an economic problem. If you use the drained water for outdoor plants or indoor container plants, you waste none of the fertilizers.
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I'm sure you know this stuff, you may just be testing me.

B
I'm not testing anyone, just trying to post what I believe to be facts, along with my opinions.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:42 AM   #11
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Pale leaves are also a good sigh of an iron deficiency, you should add some aquatic plant fertilizer containing iron as well as increasing the light, though these plants are not the higher light species, especially the anubias.
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Old 03-12-2013, 07:26 PM   #12
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Okay I'll bump up my seachem iron to every other day. Also, how is the best way to dose Mg?
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Old 03-12-2013, 08:47 PM   #13
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I used Flourish every 2 days as well as iron before I went to dry ferts. My plants looked identical to yours. I'm not sure what it was that contributed to the turn around but it's totally different. I would HIGHLY recommend a standard EI dosing regime or even PMDD. Using dry ferts is far cheaper. I only use KNO3, KH2PO4 and Plantex GSM +B although I purchased Iron chelate and K2SO4 in addition; why not shipping would cost more if I needed it in the future.

As far as the Mag what is your GH? Standard GH booster uses calcium and mag, some use iron as well. GH is a measurement of calcium and magnesium.

Basically what I'm saying is using dry ferts is cheaper, it works, it's very simple and a tried and true method. It's a heck of a lot easier following a basic dosing regime which encompasses everything than throw this or that at it and guessing. Been there done that!
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Old 03-13-2013, 04:36 PM   #14
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Got a Gh/Kh test kit today. Gh 200 Kh 50 pH 7.4
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Old 03-13-2013, 07:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Got a Gh/Kh test kit today. Gh 200 Kh 50 pH 7.4
Although tests may be inaccurate I think it is safe to assume your GH is high enough. Again GH is a measurment of MgS04/Ca so could your Ca be huge and MgSO4 be low? Maybe, I honestly don't know the answer. I think it's safe to assume your MgSO4 is high enough to not cause deficiencies based on your GH range.

Again I think a standard EI dosing would eliminate nutrient deficiecies from the equation. That happens to be the easiest problem to fix IMO.

Imagine a Physician prescribing a specific antibiotic for a cough that could be caused by 10 strains of bacteria without identifying the bug first. The patient would die before he found the right one. Luckily they have broad spectrum antibiotics to kill them all. EI is like the broad spectrum type. No need to guess just supply everything in your dosing and you can eliminate nutrients. Then you can focus on other causes like lighting, CO2, water flow etc. That's what I would do. Of course that's just my opinion. It also worked for me

Last edited by Zorfox; 03-13-2013 at 07:42 PM.. Reason: Changed morphine MSO4 to Maganesium Sulfate MgSO4. I must be to kind to the patients I treat when MSO4 comes that naturally lol
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