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Old 02-26-2013, 12:32 PM   #1
BoxxerBoyDrew
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What kind???


I have been having this algae popping up ever since I got a Marimo Ball a while back. I don't know if it is the Marimo ball algae trying to spread, or it is something that came in with it! I tried using Excel directly on it, which has killed every algae I have tried it on, EXCEPT THIS!

It is easy to remove MOST of it by just pulling it off, but it will come back pretty quick! It is also slow growing, but I am finding it more and more!!!

Please help me ID it, and any info on killing it would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!!





THANKS,
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:15 PM   #2
Ed's Fish Tank
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Hi Drew, By algae, think you mean those two hair balls of green stuff on the wood.

First, think you must test for phosphates in excess of 0.5ppm with a PO4 test kit. But, the test kit only tests for inorganic phosphates. (See the other post "A Very Odd Question"), but you may have read my response to it already.

Now, I don't really know what type of algae you have, but think you can safely assume phosphate levels are at least partly to blame.

Here is what I would do right away. Add a pouch of API Phos-Zorb to your filter. Take out the carbon if you must to fit the pouch in the filter, if it's an HOB type. In a few days the phosphates should start going down. You could also add an airstone or power head to get your water moving more so there are no dead spots or areas of low filtration.

I do hope others with more knowledge of algal types will ID the stuff for you. It does look like "hair algae" thou. But, just remember one thing, algae is algae and they're all caused by essentially the same things, too much light, too much phosphate, too much feeding fish food, tap water with phosphates, etc. You do NEED to test your tap water thou BEFORE doing any water changes, especially massive WC's!

From the photos, it does look like you have a real nice set up!
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:19 PM   #3
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I think it looks nice
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Old 02-26-2013, 02:44 PM   #4
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Hi Drew, sorry Drew (imo) what you have there is Cladophora aka Clado Algae.

PO4 above 0.5ppm in a planted tank is not the cause my friend.
Low or 0.0ppm phosphate tests confirm why when my tank has a lovely green dust algae film all over the glass.

so, I keep the PO4 level between 2-5ppm when I test.
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Old 02-26-2013, 04:06 PM   #5
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Unhappy Clado Info

Well, I'm still a bit of a noob when it comes to fish keeping, but am studying hard to get a handle of what seems to have turned out to be a potentially tough problem. Or more correctly, a type of problem that seems to sneek up on all of us at one time or another, despite our best efforts. However, what I do see right off hand is the distinct possibility that algae growth is mostly caused by the addition or slow build-up of "organics", overfeeding and just plain adding too many "NPK's", etc. Conquest is easy, control is not.

It was my understanding that phosphate test kits only test or "inorganic phosphates", so a 2~5ppm reading will certainly lead to algae growth. But, there may be other test kits that DO test the complete phosphate levels. IF anyone knows of such a kit, please PM Me! So, we are not really seeing the whole picture with test kits.

But anyway, here are a few neat sites I discovered about controlling algae. One says that a high iron level leads to hair algae. And there are a few neat critters that eat the stuff.

http://freshaquarium.about.com/od/wa...phosphates.htm

http://www.liveaquaria.com/pic/article.cfm?aid=6

http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_...ater_algae.php

http://www.bubblesaquarium.com/image...ater_algae.htm

Hope this helps some, and my heart is breaking for you. Not sure if it can be killed, but certainly controlled.

Edit/added: Drew, think your Marimo ball is to blame because "Marimo" is a form of Cladophora! Check the link below!

FWIW and IMHO, Cladophora algae is ruining Lake Michagan because of the high phosphorus levels coming from the sewers of surrounding cities.. (only my deduction)

It also seems like "Clado" can only be controlled or removed by hand. And in the Mekong Delta, people actually eat this stuff, being sort of like Japanese "Nori" (from Wikipedia)

http://www.aquatic-eden.com/2009/04/...ora-algae.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cladophora

And Drew, if you have other tanks, be careful of cross-contamination! This Clado is easily spread around!

Last edited by Ed's Fish Tank; 02-26-2013 at 05:09 PM.. Reason: Added Clado info
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Old 02-26-2013, 05:21 PM   #6
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Thanks Ed but I avoid most store links for what they are.

from your other links:
algae will appear if CO2 and Phosphate (PO4) levels are low. Then this keep Phosphate levels between 0.3-0.5ppm and CO2 levels 30 ppm. and this Limiting nutrients will not help fighting this algae, but rather cause problems in planted tanks where plants will be exposed to nutrient deficiency and that condition will just favour other algae types.
Confusing reads without a doubt.
(many times it's best to check the date on the ref. being used and also look elsewhere to verify)

I'll leave the debate on high fert levels causing algae to Tom Barr and others even though I do maintain 3 'high tech' injected systems.

As to high levels of organic phosphate or other dissolved solids and organic loading along with needing water changes to avoid algae,,,
I'll simply say proof is in doing. Light energy drives the bus. Understand the light energy provided and the rest is a wagging tail.

Pics of an ugly algae infested mess that will be 4yrs. old in April of this year. Changes since the start up can be counted on one hand.





Potting soil, Flourite, 4xT8, limited water changes and a sponge equipped power head.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:20 PM   #7
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Hi wkndracer, Thanks for the return post. Do appreciate chatting with a fellow aquariest!

But, I said, "3.0 to 5.0ppm phosphates are not good, not 0.3 to 0.5ppm. These lower levels are acceptable. (at least this is what I've read)

And "the nutrients" I mentioned are organics, not NPK's that are added for plant growth. I do know the difference.

Drew, check out this site that explains at least one way to control / limit Clado. Also, if you bought that Marimo ball somewhere, you should at least mention it to the LFS that it has caused you a lot of grief. This Clado is really invasive! It seems almost as bad as Caulerpa taxifolia that is all over the Mediterranean Sea!

http://www.aquascapingworld.com/alga...ladophora%20sp.
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed's Fish Tank View Post
But, I said, "3.0 to 5.0ppm phosphates are not good, not 0.3 to 0.5ppm. These lower levels are acceptable. (at least this is what I've read)
hehe (sorry), I posted PO4 2.0 to 5.0ppm is exactly what I maintain as range so it's not a typo on my part. Tom does the same thing as do many. Based on my tanking 2-5.0 is just fine. PO4 0.3 to 0.5 can be depleted in a single photo period under high light injected conditions.

The second part (organic content) is covered by the dirt tank ref. so the difference I consider well understood on my part, elsewhere? The pictured tank has the glass wiped 'maybe' once a month. Are my tanks algae free? are 99.99% honestly? no but, it's minor by any opinion.

On this site alone searching PO4 @ 2-5ppm and the posts and pictures based on these comments I think will surprise you.
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Last edited by wkndracer; 02-26-2013 at 07:11 PM.. Reason: :-O
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Old 02-26-2013, 06:57 PM   #9
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Drew,

I agree that this is a type of clado. Marimo balls are in fact a type of non-invasive clado. However, they can easily harbor and hide any of the other dozen invasive clado varieties. Which gives the false impression that Marimos can "turn" invasive.

Invasive clado cannot be easily or reliably eliminated by any means in a tank. Including nutrient control. So completely ignore the phosphorus warnings, as they're not applicable to this type of algae. Or any type really, as they're partially based on incorrect info outdated by more than a decade.

You may be fortunate in that you've caught it early. If at all possible, remove the driftwood and boil it. That will eliminate it there, no question. If that's not an option, I can come up with others. But stop trying to pull it off. Not only is this ineffective (as you've noticed), but it may spread fragments leading to more infestation.

And remove the Marimo ball, which seems to be the source. They can easily survive extended blackouts in a bucket with tank water, and one week generally eliminates them of unwanted algae. However, I'm not sure if the other invasive clado varieties also share this blackout resistance, so no guarantees. If you don't feel like experimenting, discard it, and maybe replace it with another Marimo - but not from the same person/business, as it will probably be infested as well.

Hopefully that will be the end of it, but keep a watchful eye out for more, and immediately deal with it. If it reappears on hardscape, remove and boil it. Or plants, trim it away. Total elimination is the goal with clado.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:26 PM   #10
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wkndracer, Thank you for helping a noob along! And thank you for sharing those photos of your tanks. So Nice!

Last edited by Ed's Fish Tank; 02-26-2013 at 11:29 PM.. Reason: Fix Typo
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkndracer View Post
Hi Drew, sorry Drew (imo) what you have there is Cladophora aka Clado Algae.

I have clado, it's dying a bit, but it is short and bushy. I think this is thread algae.
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Old 02-27-2013, 04:18 AM   #12
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WOW,

Thanks for all the responses guys!!! I read in last months, maybe this months Tropical Fish Hobbiest about the dreaded Clado, and also in the sticky in this section too! It describes it pretty much to a "T"! So I have already removed the large piece of driftwood (DW) partly because of the algae and also because it was taking up too much space in the 55g! I have now seen it starting on the other drift wood pieces as well as in the Staurogyne sp. Portovelho, as well as in some of the bare stems on the Limno. aromatica!!!!

So I am going to pull all of the driftwood, and boil them, clip the Limno, and pull the Portovelho! I don't care for the Portovelho like I thought I would, so I have been thinking of pulling it anyway! The DW pieces are all small enough to fit in my Turkey Fryer, so that won't be a problem either!

As for water changes I usually do 30% once a week or every other week. I haven't been able to do one in the last few because of my R/O units pre filters are getting used up, and I am going to order new ones wednesday. So that should take care of the water changing problem! I might go to the store and get some distilled water to do a change till my new prefilters get here though!

I have slowed down my EI dosing due to dirting the tank a while back, BUT I do usually overfeed!!! I have always been bad about that, but the water changes usually take care of that! So I am betting I am getting a buildup of nutrients and that is fueling the algae!

My bulbs are only about 8 months old, but I plan on getting new ones next month!

I am replumbing the tank with new spraybars and intakes on Monday and I think that will help with the water movement, and IF I need more I will get a circulating pump to add to the movement in the tank!

I usually don't run any carbon or anything like that! Just filter floss and Fulvals Ceramic Bio media in the 2- 205s I have running in the tank now! I did get some Bio-Chem sorb to add to the tank after I repulmb, because I have brass fittings on the cerges reactor I am now running and I believe it is leaching heavy metals into my tank! So I will be removing the cerges reactor and adding a rexxgrigg type reactor on monday too!

OH and THAT DAMN MARIMO BALL HAS BEEN GONE FOR A WHILE NOW! I don't know really why I even bought it in the first place!!!! It was just a impulse buy, and I have regretted it ever since!!! There are NO REAL planted tank stores in Waco, but the only LFS we have left sells a few plants here and there, and I bought it on a whim! BOY HAS THAT COST ME!!!

I will update Yall when I get everything reset in the 55g Monday and HOPEFULLY with the new spraybars, clean R/O water and Bio-Chem sorb I can get rid of most of the clado!!!

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!!!
Drew
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