Can a needle valve upgrade be done on any regulator?

[Hardstuff]

Can I unscrew the T needle valve assembly as 1 unit while mounted on the tank? The reason I ask this is I am not sure if I have a bench vise or not. If there will be a high risk of damage to the tank or regulator I could take it to a friends house instead.

[Bettatail]

Originally Posted by Hardstuff

As requested. Whats going on? Can this be upgraded with a better needle valve? Sorry, I should have put the camera on macro but it is good enough for demonstration purposes. What do you think Anthony?

How about rotate the regulator to this position:

you can take out the NPT to air hose connector, connect a solenoid to the so call "needle valve", then a real usable needle valve or metering valve to the solenoid.

to find the right parts for our co2 system is a big task, not anything call a "regulator", "needle valve" or "solenoid" and you assume they would get the job done.

[Darkblade48]

Originally Posted by Hardstuff

Can I unscrew the T needle valve assembly as 1 unit while mounted on the tank? The reason I ask this is I am not sure if I have a bench vise or not. If there will be a high risk of damage to the tank or regulator I could take it to a friends house instead.

I am not sure what you are referring to; the needle valve is already one unit from what I can see in your (blurry) photograph.

A bench vise is the easiest way to do it. You can probably do it without one, but it will be harder.

Originally Posted by Bettatail

How about rotate the regulator to this position:

you can take out the NPT to air hose connector, connect a solenoid to the so call "needle valve", then a real usable needle valve or metering valve to the solenoid.

You can do this too, but I would prefer to remove the needle valve that is currently on there for a cleaner look in the end.

[R.C.]

That looks similar to the Tunze branded model 7077/2. Probably a OEM\Generic.

You can connect the solenoid to the regulator first (in fact, you should). The needle valve then goes after the solenoid.

I'm very much interested in why you say it should be mounted before needle valve. What are the con\pro's of mounting either way.
Inline it seems would be more convenient and easy to swap out, with little downtime should the solenoid need replacing. Especially for hobbyist that may not be so technically inclined.

[Darkblade48]

Originally Posted by R.C.

I'm very much interested in why you say it should be mounted before needle valve. What are the con\pro's of mounting either way.
Inline it seems would be more convenient and easy to swap out, with little downtime should the solenoid need replacing. Especially for hobbyist that may not be so technically inclined.

Here you are:

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...07&postcount=6

[R.C.]

Thanks.

To place a needle valve before the solenoid is fine only if the cavity volume between the needle valve and the solenoid is small, so with only limited amount of pressurized air in this cavity. once the solenoid open, it doesn't "push" too much to the rest of the air hose space or create trouble.

This I knew, but the other points are all valid to take into consideration.

[Hardstuff]

Anthony, the blurry picture is called camera shake! Even with dirty glasses I can see what is needed to see. I did not want to use my flash. Setting up a tripod was too much of a PITA ! Sounds like the sky is falling!
I agree that the solenoid should be placed in front of the needle valve. But not for safety reasons. I read some of the dangers about CO2 systems & feel they are not that valid. For 1, a check valve failure is not happening. Also , I have watched systems with no pressure either CO2 or air stones & the water never comes back down anyway. Is it possible, yes, but I have not seen water come back down & if it did the check valve would catch it.
If the CO2 tank leaked it would most likely leak slowly unless the tubing broke or solenoid failed which would be slow anyway because the needle valve would release the gas at slower rate than if the entire tank was outgassed! I have 1500 square feet with many house plants & central air. If there was a big leak at night & I did not feel good I would know fast in the tank area. Even if the tank leaked all out at 1 time & I was asleep it would not kill me. Too many square feet! If I stayed in the room long enough I would know the symptoms, it would not flatten me fast.
I believe you are being too critical about the solenoid position. From an aesthetic point of view it has its advantages, & yes its a little safer, & also (harder for some people to replace the solenoid as mentioned). I ran a pressurized system before this for 3 years without a problem & even bigger house, 2000 square feet with leaky windows. I never thought twice about it!
Besides, there is still a needle valve in place so the C02 would only leak out from the cylinder as fast as the needle valve would let it. All the threads on this website & not 1 mention of people being killed or got sick. You want to talk about dangerous. I think the DIY are more dangerous. I had CO2 leaking all day & night for 3 months in my tank room because the way I was running it & not once did I feel sick. Now if you have a small apartment that is under 700 square feet or less with a 20 lb tank you should take more precautions .
My 3 cents.

[Darkblade48]

Originally Posted by Hardstuff

Anthony, the blurry picture is called camera shake! Even with dirty glasses I can see what is needed to see. I did not want to use my flash. Setting up a tripod was too much of a PITA ! Sounds like the sky is falling!

A clear photo will not leave any ambiguity about your setup; this is why I initially thought the green support frame were the flying leads from the solenoid.

Originally Posted by Hardstuff

I agree that the solenoid should be placed in front of the needle valve. But not for safety reasons.

I did not say the placement of the needle valve/solenoid was for safety reasons; it is more for practical reasons.

Originally Posted by Hardstuff

I read some of the dangers about CO2 systems & feel they are not that valid. For 1, a check valve failure is not happening. Also , I have watched systems with no pressure either CO2 or air stones & the water never comes back down anyway. Is it possible, yes, but I have not seen water come back down & if it did the check valve would catch it.

While you may not have observed this phenomenon, it does occur. Plastic check valves can harden and become brittle with time, thus allowing water to flow back through the tubing and into the bubble counter/needle valve/solenoid.

A good inline check valve, as well as a regulator mounted check valve (i.e. directly after your needle valve (and before a mounted bubble counter, if you are using one) is ideal.

Originally Posted by Hardstuff

I believe you are being too critical about the solenoid position. From an aesthetic point of view it has its advantages, & yes its a little safer, & also (harder for some people to replace the solenoid as mentioned).

If it is a little safer, why not just do it rather than taking additional risk?

Originally Posted by Hardstuff

All the threads on this website & not 1 mention of people being killed or got sick.

I have never once mentioned that pressurized CO2 was dangerous, provided that the proper safety precautions are taken. You can easily vent an entire cylinder of CO2 (say, 20 pound), and will be completely fine, unless you live in an airtight room.

Originally Posted by Hardstuff

You want to talk about dangerous. I think the DIY are more dangerous.

I agree with you; I have always recommended pressurized CO2 over DIY CO2.

[Hardstuff]

The comments that I made were based on the thread attachments at the end of Bettatail last comments, they are located at the bottom of my picture. He brings up some valid concerns about safety but they seem exaggerated.
After reading them I felt like I had a dangerous chemical that at any time could kill, which it could but not likely . It was almost funny because I had a CO2 DIY venting directly in my small study room for 3 months & never felt sick! I will not go back into it since I have already said my opinion which could also be wrong.
I think what has brought some confusion to me & maybe others is if they bought an older regulator without a solenoid it could be a little daunting to install which was not the case for me but I could see it being a problem for some. My solenoid came in the ( inline form ) if I stand corrected meaning hex nuts able to be attached at both ends ( not directly to the solenoid ). Until learning from you Anthony I did not even realize that the solenoid does belong attached to the regulator. Recently I started to look around to buy another regulator for a bigger tank & I noticed most regulators come now with built in solenoids. Seems like the way to go. The further downstream not attached to the solenoid works though, I know because I have been running it that way for years without a problem, but I can see a need for at least 2 check valves. In a matter of fact , I agree with what you said & feel most systems should have 2 check valves or more pending on what the configuration is.