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Old 09-06-2003, 04:07 PM   #1
Guttboy
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Hi everyone,

Well I am not sure what is going on with my tank....

I have been battling the ich prob for about 2 weeks now....been elevating the temp of the tank to 83 during the day and also treating with rid ich +. Been treating for 2 weeks now but 3 of my fish still have the white spot on them.

What is your solution....if I were to set up a quarantine tank what should I do with that? I know it can be simple but dont we want to keep the PH and water parameters the same???? Very hard for me seeing that my CO2 is run off the big tank...dont have a small tank yet.

Should I treat in a small one if I can wrangle up the spotted fish? Do i have to worry about cycling in the new tank (quarrantine)...do I still continue to treat with rid ich in the main tank?

This is really really frustrating me here......Thanks again for the help.

Wife sees my frustration and keeps asking me if we are going for a quarantine tank today....well perhaps we will....

Please help and thanks in advance....

Mike :x :cry: :arrow: after i get rid of this crapola
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Old 09-06-2003, 06:21 PM   #2
Rex Grigg
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Raise and hold the temp of the tank to around 86-87, this will shorten the life cycle of the ich. Then find what is stressing the fish. Ich is present in our tanks all the time. But unless the fish are stressed it normally is not a problem. I can always tell when one of my Endler's females is getting old and worn out because they get ich. No other fish in the tank do but that one fish that is about to die will. Second thing is either a diatom filter or a UV will remove/kill the free swimming ich.
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Old 09-06-2003, 06:40 PM   #3
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Rex,

I am raising the temp up as we speak...I am running a HOT MAGNUM 250 with DE in it....been on and off with that. Water parameters are pretty good aside from the slight to medium haze going on now. Treating with the rid ich +.

I have heard many thoughts on the Ich here and other places...some say ich is present in all tanks...others such as vicki on the AQ Bot board says that you have to introduce it.

From looking at its life cycle it seems as though once you get rid of it.....it will not come back if you dont introduce new plants/fish. Being a biology major from way back if the ich is no longer present (life cycle) how can it come back to the tank without being introduced? Do the fish always have it and we dont know about it?

Just a thought....I will continue to raise the temp and treat.

I am not sure what is stressing the fish....they all seem very fine except for 2 tetras and one ram. I did get that ram a week or so ago so it might have had it then....was not sure.

Thanks again and hope all is well with you Rex!

Mike
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10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

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Old 09-06-2003, 08:53 PM   #4
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My first battle against ich consisted of raising the water temp, total blackout, aquarium salt and rid ich in a quarantine tank for 2 weeks. I lost one fish.

My second bout of ich all I did was treat with rid ich for a week. I didn't lose any that time.

I think my first bout was so bad because it took me a long time to recognize the symptoms. The second time I caught and identified it very early on.
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Old 09-06-2003, 10:18 PM   #5
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I have a 10 gallon guppy tank and one of the older guppys had ich this morning. It didn't look too good so I euthanized it.

Is it possible to remove just the affected fish and end the disease cycle if all the other fish are unstressed and show no signs of disease. Has anyone tried this succesfully?

Rex: when your endlers got sick, did you simply remove it from the rest of the tanks inhabitants, and did they remain disease free?

I've only had one bout of ich in all my years fishkeeping so I could use some advice.


Marcel
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Old 09-07-2003, 04:02 AM   #6
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I haven't been on this board in a long time, but I feel I should respond. I've read about everything you can on this disease and what I have gotten from it is this... there is no fool proof way to get rid of ich.

I noticed you stated that you had just gotten a Ram b4 the outbreak. Obviously your best bet is to have a q-tank/hospital tank. EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE ONE!!! This doesn't have to be more than a 10g tank barebottom, only providing good filtration and heating. You should use it everytime you introduce new fish, mimicing the water where you purchased the fish. Then slowly converting it to your parameters over a few weeks. This insures a healthly, but not necessarily disease free fish.
Many fish carry diseases that are not harmful to their species, but can reek havoc on another.

...getting back on topic.
I think everyone has battled some disease in their tank at one time or another. There was a recent article in the Aquarium Fish mag. It mentioned curing disease w/o the use of meds. Most medications are strong and stress fish out trying to treat them. I personally do not use chemicals/meds in any of my reef and planted tanks.

Disease usually is the result of stress, just like in humans when we get overly stressed we are more susceptible to sickness. Stress can be due to many things... fighting between fish, overcrowding, poor water quality. So stressing the fish out even more using meds is not a good idea.

This is also why I don't like the fact that people suggest raising the temp. It does shorten the ich cycle, but that doesn't help the fish already infected with the cysts. It is just stressing them out more. It is up to the fish to fight ich off once you see the cysts. The best way to relieve stress is giving them fresh clean water, aka hospital tank...with a bare bottom tank where you don't have bacteria/parasites colonizing in your tank, it is sterile just like a hospital. Also this will stop the ich cycle since there are no eggs to hatch more of the parasite. If some of your fish are healthy, leave them in the tank and just do a decent size water change and if you must use a chmical use a product like rid-ich, any treatment with m. green in it, dosing accordingly taking into account the water changes you should be doing religiously. This is not too stressful on fish and plants and will reduce the free swimming ich. If you use the product, use it for at least 10 days. This will ensure you have gotten rid of the parasite. In both tanks, a healthy does of water conditioner will help keep the slimecoat thick to ward off some of the parasites as well.

I have yet to have a disease outbreak using a q-tank for over a year, minus my reef tank when a microburst hit my town and I lost power for over 4 days...

For the extreme, I feel some saltwater tricks might help, whether they help or not :roll: . Garlic has been highly suspected to reduce ich outbreaks in saltwater fish, especially in tangs which have barely any slimecoat, incorporating some into your fishes' diet might not be a bad thing, either grinding it up with your fish food or using the liquid form.

Also something I want to try is the reverse of a freshwater dip, for those who don't know what it is....It is where an infected saltwater fish is taken out of saltwater and dropped into freshwater for 30 or so seconds, assuming ph, hardness, and other water parameters match. Fish are able to handle sudden shifts in salinity for short periods, whereas parasites are not. They cannot handle the change and die or even "pop" and fall off. I used this method on my reef tank on my blue tang successfully, more than once.

I want to try to test this on freshwater fish in a saltwater dip. Let me know if anyone tries this as a last resort.

To sum this long post/rant up...if a fish is infected, get it into a hospital tank in fresh sterile water and hope the fish is strong enough to fight off the ich. If other fish are unaffected, do a water change and add more slimecoat and have a watchful eye. Or if your really nuts try some of my "outthere" theories.

If anyone has read this far congrats! :shock:
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Old 09-07-2003, 04:14 AM   #7
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Read that far....thanks...LOL......

Will start figuring out the plans for the quarantine tank tonight.
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Old 09-07-2003, 04:09 PM   #8
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Marcel,

When one of the Endler's get Ich I remove it from the tank. I have put them in my hospital tank but I have yet to have one recover. I have yet to see one of my males have Ich.
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Old 09-07-2003, 04:59 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg
Marcel,

When one of the Endler's get Ich I remove it from the tank. I have put them in my hospital tank but I have yet to have one recover. I have yet to see one of my males have Ich.
Did the rest of the main tanks inhabitants remain unaffected? Or did you have to medicate the main tank to rid the original main tank of ich?

Marcel
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Old 09-08-2003, 01:25 AM   #10
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Never medicated the tank and the rest of the fish never got Ich.
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Old 09-08-2003, 01:28 AM   #11
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UPDATE! Tank was not medicated today but raised tank to 86 degrees.....WOW....No more spot on the ram....no more spot on the tetras....

Will keep it up this temp for another day or so then gradually reduce it to where my plants like it (78 degrees or so).

Will not add the rid ich unless the fish get infested. I like the temperature approach.

Mike

Ps thanks for all the help!
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10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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Old 09-13-2003, 10:51 PM   #12
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Gents and ladies!

Tank seems to be very stable now and no ich in sight! Got the temps going back down to about 78 or so and things look great! Thanks for all the help.

Rex,

How many endler's do you have and what size tank do you have them in?

mike
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10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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