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Old 02-02-2013, 09:21 PM   #1
latchdan
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Algae problems


I have a 37 gallon tank, 22 inches tall with 2X55 PC lights from AH supply. I have a couple different algae that I am having problems with.

I believe I have green spot/ green dust algae, as well as another im not sure what it is called, looked at this link and couldn't really find it. (http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/algae.htm)
It grows on the bottom of the tank, and filter intake in addition to one of my crypt plants. It is black/green in color.
It partially comes off when I rub the leaf with my finger but not all the way. Could it possibly be BBA?
I just recently started to get some hair/fuzz algae on some of my plants when I switched from using flourish comp to CSM+B.

I also had some algae that was black and came off in sheets that was on the back glass and spray bar but I think was due to lack of water movement I added a pump to move extra water around since then.

Dosing day 1
1/16t Mono potassium phosphate
1/8t potassium sulfate
1/4t potassium nitrate
3ml seachem iron.

Day 2
It was 5ml flourish comp now is 1/16 teaspoon csm+B

then I alternate day 1 and 2.

I do a 50% water change with RO water and a little tap... our tap is around 8.5 ph and 12 KH 10 GH last I checked which was a while ago.

Tank is moderately planted.

C02 is injected and drop checker is green/yellow so I think its okay there. it comes on 2 hours before the lights and lights are on for 8hrs

I don't no what the PH is because I need a high range PH test kit.
KH is 7
GH unknown.

Most of these algae problems seemed due to lack of Co2 or lack nutrients, from the link i posted above, but with the Co2 I have an amount of nutrients it just doesn't seem like that is the case.

I can get some pictures later or tomorrow don't have the camera with me right now if it would help id these problems.

Thanks, Clay
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Old 02-02-2013, 09:39 PM   #2
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Most of what you posted looks good, so a few more details are necessary:

1) Are you using a 4DKH solution in the drop checker?
2) What is the distance between the PC bulbs and the substrate?
3) What is your photoperiod?
4) What fish and other fauna do you have in the tank?
5) Can you post a picture of the black/green algae?
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Old 02-02-2013, 10:29 PM   #3
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Quote:
1) Are you using a 4DKH solution in the drop checker?
2) What is the distance between the PC bulbs and the substrate?
3) What is your photoperiod?
4) What fish and other fauna do you have in the tank?
5) Can you post a picture of the black/green algae?
1. Im using 4dkh solution
2. distance is about 20 inches
3. Photoperiod is 10am till 7pm, 9 hrs thought it was 8.
4. Fish is angel fish, siemese algae eater and a few ottos not sure how many only see them once in a blue moon. I have Ambulia not sure if its asian or red, willow leaf hygro, and some type of crypt, and java moss on a piece of drift wood.
5. I'll get a picture of the black algae tomorrow when I can get a camera.
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Old 02-02-2013, 11:49 PM   #4
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on crypt.


green dust after 5 days


brownish algae


black algae?
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Old 02-03-2013, 03:34 AM   #5
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This doesn't appear to be a simple case, so I will run down every possibility I can think of, no matter how remote.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latchdan View Post
2. distance is about 20 inches
3. Photoperiod is 10am till 7pm, 9 hrs thought it was 8.
I've never used and am not terribly familiar with PC lighting, so I had to look up a few things.

First, from this thread, I see that a single 36W AHS PC light gives about 40 PAR at 20" from the substrate.

A 55W PC is longer, so the PAR at the substrate should be virtually the same. Given your tank dimensions of 30-1/4" x 12-1/2" x 22-3/4", and that you have two PC lights, you probably have them in this orientation, side-by-side:



Which doubles your PAR to 80, the lower threshold of high light.

A nine hour photoperiod isn't excessive, and barring any unusual PC quirks I may be unfamiliar with, neither is your intensity; but as GSA/GDA on the glass can be a symptom of excessive intensity or photoperiod, I'd suggest going ahead and bumping it down to eight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latchdan View Post
1. Im using 4dkh solution
Great. Between this, yellow-green drop checker color, and your pH controller, I think we can disqualify CO2 as an issue.

You're using EI dosing for 20-40G high light and heavily planted tanks, plus some extra iron. This should be more than enough macros/micros to disqualify any deficiencies in these nutrients.

Given your tapwater parameters of 12KH and 10GH, and after dilution with RO water down to 7KH, there should be plenty of GH left. However, we don't know what that GH is from. Normally I'd expect a healthy ratio of calcium and magnesium, but it would be nice to know for sure. Can you get a water report from your city that lists this?

Tapwater so high in mineral content may also contain high levels of other things, like phosphate. I've seen enough reports from people who had high tapwater phosphate levels to believe that in some cases, it acts quite differently than the phosphate we dose, inducing algae whereas KH2P04 will not. Have you tested your tapwater for phosphate? Since you already have an RO unit, it might be a worthwhile experiment to try doing water changes with it alone, using a GH Booster to bring your GH back up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latchdan View Post
4. Fish is angel fish, siemese algae eater and a few ottos not sure how many only see them once in a blue moon.
Only the angel fish worth considering here. If you have a lot of them and they're fed heavily, then in combination with dosing EI for a heavily planted tank when it's only moderately planted, you may have excessive nitrates. I ran into this problem, at 140ppm nitrates I had symptoms of insufficient phosphates (despite them being at 30ppm), uncontrollable GSA/GDA, and plant stunting. If you believe this is a possibility, a nitrate test may be in order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latchdan View Post
5. I'll get a picture of the black algae tomorrow when I can get a camera.
A nice little potpourri of algae. A full tank shot would be beneficial too, so we can see the extent and locations, which may reveal additional possibilities.

Some of this looks quite unusual, and I suspect a lot of it is in part BGA. It comes in a variety of forms and colors, not just the most commonly encountered blue-green. And it can form symbiotic relationships with various algae, which can further change its appearance, or even totally mask it. Symbiosis with GDA is fairly well documented, and if BGA is involved, killing it alone leads to the decline of the GDA. BGA is also notorious for altering its own environment to make it hospitable to algae, regardless of your attempts to correct it. I would suggest a thorough manual cleanup to remove as much algae as you can, followed by treatment with erythromycin.
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Old 02-03-2013, 08:18 PM   #6
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I just trimmed a bunch of the plants and threw away parts that were covered in algae. I definitely need some more fast growing plants.

I'll have to get a phosphate test kit and nitrate, mine are either out of code or I ran out. I will also have to see what information I can get about the city water. Although, I do have GH booster and can use straight RO and booster if that could possibly help.
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:42 PM   #7
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Seems your problem is too much light and less co2...Cut your photoperiod to 6 hours or increase Co2 to max...
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Old 02-03-2013, 10:47 PM   #8
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Quote:
Seems your problem is too much light and less co2...Cut your photoperiod to 6 hours or increase Co2 to max...
I can decrease the photo period but I'm weary on increasing co2 more, I've had my fish gasping for air before. Should I add an air stone?

I was under the impression that my lights were not in the high range because I couldn't grow foreground plants (HC/glosso/ ricca(as a mat). I've tried them numerous times and they either get leggy or wilt away.
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Old 02-06-2013, 08:18 PM   #9
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Quote:
Given your tapwater parameters of 12KH and 10GH, and after dilution with RO water down to 7KH, there should be plenty of GH left. However, we don't know what that GH is from. Normally I'd expect a healthy ratio of calcium and magnesium, but it would be nice to know for sure. Can you get a water report from your city that lists this?
I looked up the city water and this is what the website said.
calcium in ppm 24-130
magnesium in ppm 16-46

I don't no what is normal or what.

Also if i go pure RO with using GH booster should I also add baking soda to keep my kh up?
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Old 02-06-2013, 11:51 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latchdan View Post
I looked up the city water and this is what the website said.
calcium in ppm 24-130
magnesium in ppm 16-46
Even at the lower ranges, and diluted with RO water as you've been doing, that's adequate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by latchdan View Post
Also if i go pure RO with using GH booster should I also add baking soda to keep my kh up?
kH is carbonate hardness. Some GH Boosters contain CaCO3, or other ingredients with CO3 (carbonate), and will raise your kH as well. Others will not, and you'll have to use baking soda. Check the ingredients and instructions of whichever Booster you plan to use.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:19 AM   #11
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I have Seachem equilibrium
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:38 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by latchdan View Post
I have Seachem equilibrium
That one doesn't raise kH.
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Old 02-07-2013, 12:40 PM   #13
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Get some of these..

http://www.azgardens.com/p-222-nerit...ite-snail.aspx
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:07 PM   #14
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Wanted to give an update on the algae problem since its been about 5 more days. I've reduced photo period to 6 hours. 3 hrs on 1 hour off 3 hours on.

I've started dosing excel for the past 3 days.

This is same spot of the glass as the previous GDA was.



Another focusing on the plants rather then glass, harder to see the algae in this one.



It is improving quite a bit but its still there. Next week I'm going to see if i can get some more plants, its a far drive so gotta wait mid week.
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Old 02-10-2013, 01:12 AM   #15
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Quote:
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I was a fish store today and they had snails labeled zebra snails. I asked if they were nerite snails and he said yes. I have a pic but im on my phone. How many should I get . They are 2.00 a piece
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