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Old 01-24-2013, 02:06 AM   #1
mommabear1007
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Fish for Food???


Lately I've been reading a lot about toxins in food, cleaning products, cosmetics, etc. I have been phasing out my toxic chemicals and replacing them with natural alternatives (and I highly suggest it). But anyway, we are now looking into growing our own veggies and came across and article where this family grew tomatoes out of a fish tank. I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with this?? Thoughts?? Would you eat food grown in fish poo? -- Chances are you already eat food grown with deadly chemicals all over it. We all know that, at one time, cow poo was used as fertilizer and we ate that, so.. Was just wondering if anyone could offer some input

On a somewhat related note has anyone heard about the genetically modified fish?? You can read about it here: http://www.naturalnews.com/029707_GMOs_salmon.html and (please) sign a petition to stop it here: http://action.fooddemocracynow.org/s...mo_salmon_now/
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Old 01-24-2013, 02:37 AM   #2
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Hate to break it to you, but most of our food is still grown in 'poo'. In fact, quite a few farms use sludge harvested from our very human-poo clogged waste water treatment plants as fertilizer and many others--especially the smaller farmers supplying much of the local grown-organic produce at the farmer's markets, still mix up a slurry of aged manure and waste water and drive their fields spraying it over the very fruits and veggies you'll be eating. Or over the fields growing the pasturage that feed the livestock we eat.

The fish waste is broken down and used by the plants just as they are in your planted tank. All part of a grand bio-chemical equation that is as natural as.. well... pooing.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:24 AM   #3
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Do a search for Aquaponics and there's all kinds of info about growing food and fish together, and eating both.
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Old 01-24-2013, 04:36 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotyoureality View Post
Hate to break it to you, but most of our food is still grown in 'poo'. In fact, quite a few farms use sludge harvested from our very human-poo clogged waste water treatment plants as fertilizer and many others--especially the smaller farmers supplying much of the local grown-organic produce at the farmer's markets, still mix up a slurry of aged manure and waste water and drive their fields spraying it over the very fruits and veggies you'll be eating. Or over the fields growing the pasturage that feed the livestock we eat.

The fish waste is broken down and used by the plants just as they are in your planted tank. All part of a grand bio-chemical equation that is as natural as.. well... pooing.
While waste water and sludge is legal to use on non food crops in the US it's not legal on food crops in many places. Why? Because products like Milorganite can contain heavy metals like cadmium among others. There is a bill here in FL to start using treated sewage on fruit crops but only from septic tanks. Not 100% sure about the other states though.
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Old 01-24-2013, 05:19 AM   #5
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I oddly had a photo of someone who had a tomato plant growing out of their filter.. Not sure what I did with it though, sorry.
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:44 AM   #6
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http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...158&highlight=

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Old 01-24-2013, 02:41 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotyoureality View Post
Hate to break it to you, but most of our food is still grown in 'poo'. In fact, quite a few farms use sludge harvested from our very human-poo clogged waste water treatment plants as fertilizer and many others--especially the smaller farmers supplying much of the local grown-organic produce at the farmer's markets, still mix up a slurry of aged manure and waste water and drive their fields spraying it over the very fruits and veggies you'll be eating. Or over the fields growing the pasturage that feed the livestock we eat.

The fish waste is broken down and used by the plants just as they are in your planted tank. All part of a grand bio-chemical equation that is as natural as.. well... pooing.
I suppose that idea doesn't gross me out nearly as much as chemicals fertilizers. However, I can't believe most human poo is very good for anything, considering what most of us eat. I read somewhere that having some of that bacteria inside of us was actually good, but I can't remember the source.

While we're on the subject, does anyone know where the dry ferts we buy online come from?

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Originally Posted by Contrl View Post
Do a search for Aquaponics and there's all kinds of info about growing food and fish together, and eating both.
We have been doing that. I just thought I would ask the wonderfully creative people who use this site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GraphicGr8s View Post
While waste water and sludge is legal to use on non food crops in the US it's not legal on food crops in many places. Why? Because products like Milorganite can contain heavy metals like cadmium among others. There is a bill here in FL to start using treated sewage on fruit crops but only from septic tanks. Not 100% sure about the other states though.
I find it astonishing what IS legal to use. If pesticides kill things, why should we be spraying them on our food, that we eat, to.. you know.. live? All we need to do is make sure the plants get what they need. They will naturally ward off pests and diseases. Like red grapes: They will produce resveratrol that help us ward off diseases as well. But they only produce it if they are exposed to fungus. The same company who made the pesticides also made nerve gas and other deadly chemicals like agent orange for war. They just altered it a bit so they wouldn't waste their efforts after the war was over and decided we might as well spray it all over our food. The same people working for that company, also work in the FDA, Dept. of Agriculture, etc., so, it's no wonder how it is legal. People just put their faith in their govt. and....

Well now I'm just ranting.. :x

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I oddly had a photo of someone who had a tomato plant growing out of their filter.. Not sure what I did with it though, sorry.
its ok, i'd heard of people putting plants in their HOB filters. I do that to give my propagated houseplants a head start, but I don't think this is done the same way.

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http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...158&highlight=

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awesome! thank you!
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:28 PM   #8
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There is a lot of misunderstanding about GMOs. on the other hand, a lot of the companies doing the work involved in creating/modifying GMOs have done some highly unethical things.

As to dry ferts, I'm not certain, but a lot of the fertilizers used in agriculture are created from petroleum. (which is a large part of why the whole push to use corn to produce ethanol for fuel was a bad idea - use petroleum to fertilize the corn, use petroleum to harvest, transport, and process the corn, use petroleum to convert it to ethanol, and transport it, and by the time you have something you can add to a fuel mix, you've spent more energy producing it then you will ever get out of it).

Pesticides are usually targeted towards a specific group of organism. A lot of insecticides are essentially a variety of nerve gas (which is why the same corporations produce chemical warfare agents and pesticides), this interfere's with the insect's (or soldier's) nerve system, and has little direct effect on plants. I don't really know the specifics, but fungicides will probably work by interfering with some chemical reaction common/essential in fungus, but not present in plants, etc.

Anyway, as to aquaponics, there was at least one decent thread on it here. Also look into some books on homesteading or living off the grid, -having a small pond to grow fish is a pretty common technique, whether it's hooked up to the hydroponic system in a greenhouse, or just a big hole in the back yard. I think Tilapia are a pretty well-liked fish for farming, as they grow quickly, and eat low on the food chain (less bioaccumulation of toxins, as well as cheaper, etc.).
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:27 AM   #9
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In the summer when I do water changes I throw the old water in the garden.
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Old 01-25-2013, 03:23 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lochaber View Post
There is a lot of misunderstanding about GMOs. on the other hand, a lot of the companies doing the work involved in creating/modifying GMOs have done some highly unethical things.

As to dry ferts, I'm not certain, but a lot of the fertilizers used in agriculture are created from petroleum. (which is a large part of why the whole push to use corn to produce ethanol for fuel was a bad idea - use petroleum to fertilize the corn, use petroleum to harvest, transport, and process the corn, use petroleum to convert it to ethanol, and transport it, and by the time you have something you can add to a fuel mix, you've spent more energy producing it then you will ever get out of it).

Pesticides are usually targeted towards a specific group of organism. A lot of insecticides are essentially a variety of nerve gas (which is why the same corporations produce chemical warfare agents and pesticides), this interfere's with the insect's (or soldier's) nerve system, and has little direct effect on plants. I don't really know the specifics, but fungicides will probably work by interfering with some chemical reaction common/essential in fungus, but not present in plants, etc.

Anyway, as to aquaponics, there was at least one decent thread on it here. Also look into some books on homesteading or living off the grid, -having a small pond to grow fish is a pretty common technique, whether it's hooked up to the hydroponic system in a greenhouse, or just a big hole in the back yard. I think Tilapia are a pretty well-liked fish for farming, as they grow quickly, and eat low on the food chain (less bioaccumulation of toxins, as well as cheaper, etc.).
Well I suppose with that way of producing ethanol they would at least get their money. I wonder if they're not interested in solar because they can't figure out a way to charge people for using the sun. I did not know dry ferts were made from petroleum . I can't believe that's healthy for the fish. I wouldn't want to eat anything using those ferts. Would be nice to live off the grid. I'll have to look into books on that.

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In the summer when I do water changes I throw the old water in the garden.
I water my houseplants with that water, but I don't eat my houseplants. They seem to love it but I wasn't sure if it was healthy to consume something grown in that water.
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Old 01-25-2013, 04:36 AM   #11
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It's very healthy.
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Old 01-25-2013, 08:25 PM   #12
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I can't believe that's healthy for the fish. I wouldn't want to eat anything using those ferts.
All in all, it's the same chemicals getting used, the original source doesn't really affect what it is. The same chemicals will be present in manure, compost, emulsified fish, etc. It's just more economical to use petroleum products to start with when they are getting created on that scale. Plus, it's cheaper to ship/store a concentrated product. And not all of the ferts come from petroleum, I'm just aware that some of the major industrial agriculture ones do.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mommabear1007 View Post
I water my houseplants with that water, but I don't eat my houseplants. They seem to love it but I wasn't sure if it was healthy to consume something grown in that water.
It's fine. The major concern when using manure to fertilize plants is to prevent any parasite/pathogen transmission. There is almost no risk from say, some sort of subsurface irrigation (using diluted blackwater (plumbing type blackwater, not mercenary or aquarium type blackwater)) in a fruit orchard-the wastewater only comes in contact with the roots of the tree, and is completely separate from the fruit. You wouldn't want to use (human, at least) sewage/manure to grow turnips or something, as there would be direct contact with the end product.
I believe the concerns using treated sewage come from other pollutants that get dumped into our waste water, not directly from human waste.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:28 PM   #13
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I think you need to research the other side of fertilizers as well, especially the basics- NPK. You have to get it from somewhere. The plants don't magically make it, nor will they make do without it and achieve desirable results. Additionally, organic substitutions are just that- substitutions for the basics- NPK. It's just coming from a different place.

Additionally, there are a whole bunch of plants that can't and won't ward off things like fungus and chewing insects on the strength of their will. Watch tomatoes melt a time or two and you'll probably have a better idea. There are organic alternatives, but the learning curve is a little steeper and when you're trying to identify a chewing insect and which organic compound kills him or scares him away while he's systematically chewing your vegetables to the ground, you're going to either muster patience or go to the reasonable and responsible use of more broad-spectrum solutions.
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