Round 3? Going all out.
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > General Planted Tank Forums > Tank Journals


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-11-2014, 09:30 AM   #1
Cam-t1
Algae Grower
 
Cam-t1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Posts: 49
Post

Round 3? Going all out.


If anyone has seen my previous threads I haven't had the best of luck with my current tank, started off with just getting the wrong advice, after seeking help here from some really great people my plants are back on track, but i've decided to scrap the current tank (was a second hand, not good condition, scratches everywhere etc) and start again!

Im going with a custom built 4ft with a different type of glass on the front and sides (starfire I believe to make it clearer), I've chosen to go with the frames on the outside still, like the 'more support' part.

Still throwing up wether to get 45 or 60cm high. And want it to look nicee, would love no algae, thriving plants, and a sweet scape I can enjoy instead of stressing about it. So i've decided to use mainly ADA Products. I know alot of people say its overpriced etc, but i've seen plenty of pictures/videos with ADA setups and it looks great. I'm also willing to pay more to get better end results.

Equipment I have currently:

Filters
AquaOne Series 2 Aquis 1050
AquaOne Nautillus 1400

Light
AquaOne Coral pro light, 4x 54w tubes, only use two though.

1L Co2 System
__________________________________________________ ________

ADA Products (planning to purchase, just want some opinions first)
Following this ---> http://tinyurl.com/mdl9ejo video for what products to use and setup.

Substrate/Additives
  • Penac W 200g
  • Penac P 200g
  • Tourmaline BC
  • Power sand special S – 2L
  • Clear Super 50g
  • Bacter 100
  • Aqua Soil NEW Amazonia (Normal) 9ltr
  • Aquasoil NEW Amazonia (Powder) 9ltr
Ferts
  • Green Brighty Step 1 500ml
  • Green Brighty Step 2 500ml
  • Green Brighty Step 3 500ml
  • Green Gain 50ml x2
  • Green Bacter 50ml
  • ECA 50ml
Tools
  • Do! Pinsettes L
  • Do! Scissors M (Curve type)
  • Superge
  • Clean Bottle
  • Wood Tight
  • Moss Cotton
(Couldn't justify spending hundreds on tools )


I don't know if ADA products come with instruction? lol Im not sure how much of anything I would have to use when it comes to additives.


Im going with 3 bags of the Normal soil, and 2 of the powder soil, and 2 bags of the Special Sand S - Does this sound about right for a 4ft (and am going to follow the method in the above video)

__________________________________________________ ________


Not 100% sure on the scape yet (trying to decide between wood/rock or both) But I would like to have a focal point in the middle with wood/rock and have some hairgrass towards the back along with some high stem plants, and mainly HC at the front.


I do have fish in this current tank, so I have a 100ltr setup waiting for them to be housed in their whilst I do the whole daily water changes after planting/flooding to bring the ammonia down and make it stable again.


So, with buying the above products, having (what I know now) the right amount of lighting/co2 levels, and a proper co2 system! Not a nano one, someone please tell me I shouldn't have a massive outbreak of algae that will wreck all the plants! haha I know algae can happen and im fine to deal with it, I just would love an easy tank (or is there such a thing :P)

Cheers guys! Sorry about the book, I'll be posting pictures of everything thats coming in the next few weeks.
Cam-t1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-11-2014, 01:58 PM   #2
Raymond S.
Planted Tank Guru
 
Raymond S.'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hot Springs Ar. 71901
Posts: 3,082
Default

60cm is going to be rough getting to the bottom for planting etc.
A lot of larger tanks(factory) have a 50cm height for ease of entering
and being able to reach the bottom well.
__________________
The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
Raymond S. is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2014, 03:02 PM   #3
philipraposo1982
Wannabe Guru
 
philipraposo1982's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,180
Default

less deep is better IMO.

Just remember, a gorgeous scape is true art and you can't gain that by throwing money around. Healthy plants come from having the best understanding of what the plants need. Again this doesn't mean spending a small fortune.

With that said going with quality goods are for sure going to help you. But if your understanding is still not there then you will have a rough time.

Adding co2, high demanding plants, a lot of light can be a huge disaster for those who don't know how to handle it. it is like giving a Ferrari to a 12 year old who has never driven a car.

My point being that you should take this time to RESEARCH and keep on researching till you can't do it no more. The people on here with some of the best / healthy tanks are some of the most knowledgeable. trust me this is not just a coincidence.

good luck.
__________________
philipraposo1982 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2014, 03:29 PM   #4
cephelix
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 68
Default

I too agree with Raymond's and Philip's advice.
Go with a lower height for the tank, it will make planting and lighting it so much easier. With a taller tank you'll sometimes struggle trying to get sufficient light at the substrate for carpeting plants.

I myself recently came beck into the hobby after a hiatus of 8 years or so and back then I was more interested in fishes than plants. Over the last 2 years, I've always struggled with growing plants and have torn down my scape countless times because I was struggling with algae and unhealthy plants. If not that, then I was unhappy with the scape.

After more reading through this forum (which has provided a wealth of information) I realised that I'm not looking for a tank with a nice scape, but I was more struck by healthy plant growth. the learning curve is somewhat steep, but nothing that is overwhelming. Only recently have I been able to grow really healthy plants and I'm finally enjoying my tanks.

That being said, ADA stuff does cost quite a bit and there are people on this forum that would advise you against buying some of the products in the line. But at the end of the day, it is your money.

And I'm no expert, but I think the 1L CO2 system would run out quite fast in a 4ft tank. Correct me if I'm wrong here though.

In the end, it takes quite a bit of reading and understanding and putting it all together to get a gorgeous tank and I commend you for trying it out on a 4ft. Do read up on EI or PPS-pro if you haven't as the soil will lose nutrients over time and constantly buying liquid fertilisers would be quite expensive. In the end, proper maintenance, keeping up with water changes and removing dead/decomposing plant/animal matter would do you alot of good.

I do hope things go well for you and I'm definitely looking forward to pictures of your new purchases.

Regards,
Ali
cephelix is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2014, 04:17 PM   #5
Knotyoureality
Wannabe Guru
 
Knotyoureality's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 1,360
Default

Less depth is easier to work in, easier to get good light penetration and often gives a "nicer" set of proportions if you're keen on replicating the current modes of 'scaping. Better quality glass (and no scratches--sigh, I envy) is a good thing too.

But, don't get fooled into thinking the materials are what make the tank. The most amazing tank I've ever seen, one that made me wish desperately I were a fish so I could LIVE in it--was a 125g, black frame, gravel bottomed, low-tech, moderate light setup with the most common of plants and fish that only required 10 minutes a day attention with about an hour once a week to trim, prune, and do water changes. The guy had a dozen lovely hi-tech setups elsewhere in the house with every sort of rare and exotic thing. But the tank he loved, the one he sat and watched when he wanted life to feel easy and unstressed, was this one. One huge beautiful gnarled branch, dozens of anubias, a sprinkling of stems and a carpet of..hard to believe but it worked..java fern. Easiest tank in the world to maintain and absolutely gorgeous.

By all means, if you've got the money, go for it. But if you've got budgetary limits, do your planning ahead and figure out where the money really ought to go. It might be that the core of your dream tank is going to be an amazing piece of wood, or the newest exotic varieties of brightly colored plants, or maybe you're a tech wiz and want a streamlined beautiful tech system----the point is to figure out your goal first, figure out what pushes your happy button, and THEN figure out what you'll need to get there.
Knotyoureality is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2014, 05:15 PM   #6
philipraposo1982
Wannabe Guru
 
philipraposo1982's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,180
Default

Just realized the 1l co2 will not be anywhere close to enough.
__________________
philipraposo1982 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2014, 10:32 PM   #7
Cam-t1
Algae Grower
 
Cam-t1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Posts: 49
Default

Cheers all, really appreciate you all putting your time and effort to replying


I'll go with the 45cm high, I was pretty sure I was going to, but you all saying its alot easier makes the decision for me lol.


So no one here is actually against ADA products (when it comes to their substrate/additives)?

Does anyone have an links to really informative reads on planted tanks? I have read heaaapsss on this and other forums, and on the web in general, but if anyone has a good read to share, please post

I have done heaps of research (and will continue to do so) but I have learnt the basics (well I hope) and the main reason im going this way is to give the substrate a heap of nutrients for the plants - when it comes to the cost of the products, yes I know there would be cheaper options, and I could get the same results from doing low tech, but theres just so much information out there on both, and I have the money at the moment to splurge that little bit more - which gave me the decision of going with ADA products.

I'm aware that high nutrients and not too many plants will give algae more to feed off - so i'm planning on planting heaps of plants the second my hardscape is done/before flooding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cephelix
In the end, it takes quite a bit of reading and understanding and putting it all together to get a gorgeous tank and I commend you for trying it out on a 4ft. Do read up on EI or PPS-pro if you haven't as the soil will lose nutrients over time and constantly buying liquid fertilisers would be quite expensive.
I assume EI or PPS-pro are ferts? I'll read up on them when i get home from work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Knotyoureality
the point is to figure out your goal first, figure out what pushes your happy button, and THEN figure out what you'll need to get there.
lol so true.. I'm waiting for the supplier to get more stock which should be by the coming Thursday so what you said is a the best advice, i'll take some time to see/feel what I really want before I rush out and buy the hardscape supplies.

Regarding my CO2, the lady at my LFS said I would get a month out of it, and I get 6 free refills - I used to get just over/under (depending on a few things) a week with the nano CO2 system I had which was a 93g bottle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by philipraposo1982
Just realized the 1l co2 will not be anywhere close to enough.
What do you mean won't be enough? Do you mean It'll run out quickly? orr? D:

Q: In my current tank I am dosing Flourish Excel mainly to help prevent the algae (along with right lighting/CO2) which has worked, so would It be a good idea to dose Flourish Excel in a newly set up tank to help keep any algae away plus it would be helping the plants aswell, wouldn't it?
Cam-t1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2014, 10:44 PM   #8
philipraposo1982
Wannabe Guru
 
philipraposo1982's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,180
Default

with the co2 you could have it dialled down low enough to last a long time but that doesn't mean you have put the desired amount of co2 in the water using this method.

I suggest looking up other 4' tanks and see how big of co2 they are running to get a better idea.

If you are providing enough co2 excel is not required. Keeping algae at bay is done through appropriate dosing of ferts, proper lighting, and the right amount / type of plants.

Basically it comes down to the perfect balance.

People do use excel to spot treat areas if they have an algae outbreak. But its far more important to understand why your having the outbreak to begin with.

Easiest way to avoid big algae blooms in the beginning is to plant heavy and provide fast growing plants the nutrients they are looking for. Also run your light for 6 hours and co2 at optimal amounts.
__________________
philipraposo1982 is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2014, 12:56 AM   #9
691175002
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 284
Default

Skip the substrate additives and put the money towards a proper co2 system.
Aquasoil alone is more than enough.

In terms of fertilizers, I'm sure the ADA stuff works but so does dry dosing EI. You will, also find a lot more information about how to use the fertilizers since almost everybody uses them.

If you realize you are having a specific nutrient deficiency such as potassium or phosphate, with dry powders you can add exactly what you want. Its a lot harder when you are working with premixed solutions.

Edit: I looked up the green brightly series and none of them contain any nitrogen or phosphorus. I'm not sure whats up with that.
__________________

Last edited by 691175002; 10-12-2014 at 12:59 AM.. Reason: because
691175002 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2014, 02:57 AM   #10
Cam-t1
Algae Grower
 
Cam-t1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Posts: 49
Default

Cheers again Philip
Is HC a fast grower? I was going to have plenty of that in the front, and hairgrass towards the back, and a few taller stem plants (haven't decided which ones, but I have a catalog of all plants available at my LFS.

What do you suggest 691175002? Would a 3L system be fine? Correct me if I'm wrong but the current 1L system I have now is 'proper' but just a tad small? It's still going to get the job done?

I'm really not too worried about price, id still get the additives for the substrate wether or not
If I was to get another co2 system, I understand aquasoil is good by itself, but having the additives just make it that little bit better.

I should of said this in my OP, but the push fo ADA products is also because I'm getting them -extremely- cheap. Hence why I'm keen to use their additives/ferts

I know they have other products for ferts other then the green brightly series, I'll look into it after work today
Cam-t1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2014, 04:30 AM   #11
cephelix
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 68
Default

that explains it. if you're getting it for cheap, then good on you.
For your CO2, most would get a 10lb cylinder or the biggest you can find and stuff in your cabinet as the top ups for the various sized tanks don't differ by much. Hence it's more cost effective to buy the biggest you could fit.

HC is a slow grower for me. I've had it in my 2ft and it just stays as a clump, doesn't spread at all, but that's just me.

For plants,the 3 macros would be NPK(Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosphorus)...and then there are the micros. As mentioned, do read up on EI (Estimative Index) and PPS-Pro to learn more about nutrients and fertilizing.
cephelix is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2014, 10:01 PM   #12
Cam-t1
Algae Grower
 
Cam-t1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Posts: 49
Default

I've decided to stick to my 1L CO2 for now, 6 months or so down the track i'll look into getting a bigger system, I also get 6 free refills on the bottle so that should get me through about 6 months or a bit less without paying anything.

I had a look at the ADA Book cephelix, this is what it says.

Green Brighty STEP 1
Initial Stage to the 3rd month after setup
Contains: High trace elements, low iron.

Green Brighty STEP 2
3rd month to 1 year after set-up
Contains: Low trace elements, high iron.

Green Brighty STEP 3
1 year or older
Contains: Trace elements, Iron, Potassium.

So none of those actually contain Nitrogen or Phosphorus.

There is one called Green Brighty Special LIGHTS, about it: "..fertilizer for fast growing sun plants such as Riccia or stemmed plants. It contains a balanced nutrient formula, necessary for the sun plants and it is very effective for leaves with nutrient deficiency."

Which contains High nitrogen, high phosphate, Normal amount of Potassium, iron and trace elements.

So I'm a bit stuck here, I did look up EI and PPS-Pro (sounds very reliable) however, I'm still drawn to Green series due to price and I can just get everything together. If I notice deficiencies down the road, is it simple enough to get what i'm missing and add it in? Or I could always just use that Green Brighty Special LIGHTS product, which has it all.

Cheers
Cam-t1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-12-2014, 10:39 PM   #13
Raymond S.
Planted Tank Guru
 
Raymond S.'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Hot Springs Ar. 71901
Posts: 3,082
Default

You can just order a single fert like either K2SO4(for use instead of KNO3 if you already have high enough nitrates) or KNO3 and either will give you the Potassium needed and you can just add that seperately if a deficiency indicates a lack of sufficient amount of it.
There are several sources each of which sells quantities of individual
ferts.
__________________
The shortest distance between any two points is a straight line...in the opposite direction...
Raymond S. is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-13-2014, 02:22 AM   #14
cephelix
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Singapore
Posts: 68
Default

There are those who have success with ADA ferts. And going on what you've said about the Brights Special Lights, if you get it, then you are covered in terms on micros and macros.
I personally cannot comment on brand name liquid ferts as I haven't used them long enough to see a change before I switched to dry ferts.
What attracts me to dry ferts is you can add tailor the composition of the macros you add to the tank depending on what you are lacking. As it's been frequently on TPT, every tank is different depending on dimensions, substrate,lights, plants etc. So the ability to tailor the fertiliser mix really appeals to me.
As what Raymond has said, it's easy enough to order a single macro in dry form to add to your tank to remedy the situation. Normal macros would be KNO3, KH2PO4.
But there are many many tanks out there that use the full line of ADA products and have superb results. I must admit, when I first got back into the hobby, the ADA tanks and equipment are what caught my eye the most.
The guys and gals here of course just want to help you. So you don't go blowing money on unnecessary stuff.
As for the CO2 thing, I agree with you, just use up the 6 free top ups you have first before buying a larger cylinder. My only worry is the 1L cylinder might not even last a month before you'll have to top it up.
cephelix is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-13-2014, 12:06 PM   #15
Cam-t1
Algae Grower
 
Cam-t1's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
Posts: 49
Default

So I was reading up on google and found a few different threads that all basically said the same thing - whilst using Green Brighty Step 1, 2 and 3, you also use Brighty K which is potassium, so that covers that. Nitrates and Phosphrous come from Fish food, waste (although waste won't be high with daily 50% water changes at first) and apparently the soil also leeches (mainly ammonia at first) but in a longer period N and P - so that really covers all the macros and micros, doesn't it?


Again, due to price and ease of getting everything together i'm more inclined to go with ADA liquid ferts. If I notice any deficiencies, I can always dose with the Green Brighty Special LIGHTS which will cover it all

I've also got a Nutrafin master test kit laying around somewhere I purchased nearly a year ago, which should help me keep ontop of everything other then potassium.
Cam-t1 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012