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Old 01-19-2013, 08:29 PM   #31
discuspaul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Merth View Post
The mesh bag full of powder is packaged inside of a sealed plastic bag but yes it is white when new.
That may be - I can't exactly recall. But from what I can see in that pic, there is no mesh bag enclosing the Purigen particles inside that plastic bag in the pic.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:10 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discuspaul View Post
Now that you've posted pics, andygold - something is definitely not right.
You said the Purigen was bought new and that it was brown from the beginning - i.e. before any use whatsoever.
Unused/new Seachem Purigen comes in a fine mesh bag, or loose Purigen beads in a 250 ml jar, and is white, not brown. It gets brown after fairly lengthy usage in a filter, but returns to it's original white color after re-charging.
The pic you showed appears to contain product in an impermeable plastic-type bag - (like a re-sealable zip-lock type bag) - the water would not seem to flow through that for the Purigen to work. That's why you said it was still dry after the bottom of the bag sat in water. Purigen comes in a fine mesh bag that allows water to flow through it.

So something seems amiss here - what kind of bag is that exactly ?
No Purigen I've ever seen or bought comes in a bag like that.
If I'm right about the type of bag, and my eyes are not deceiving me, that product you got is not Seachem Purigen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Merth View Post
The mesh bag full of powder is packaged inside of a sealed plastic bag but yes it is white when new.
The pic of the bag by itself, the second one down...it's actually sitting in a zip-lock in that pic. In the pic of the tank, it is out of the zip-lock.

When first pulled out of the box, the mesh bag was sealed inside a plastic bag that was heat sealed closed. The color of the product was a slight off-white, similar to the color of old computer cases (slightly almond colored). It was the proper color as I've seen, from looking at the jars in the LFS. The colors in that second pic came from around 1 hour in my tank. That color would be most similar to a reddish, clay brick. when i said that the product was still dry...after rinsing it and taking it out from under the water flow, the resin did not hold onto any liquid, upon shaking it, next to no water dripped from the bag. Basically, it was not holding onto the water, it let it all drain out completely.

Well, after this little 5-minute test, besides everyone floating at the top, almost all the females gave birth. There are babies everywhere. I just did a 1 gallon water change to remove anything toxic in the water. While siphoning 1/2 the gravel I picked up close to a dozen babies.

I checked for chlorine in the tank's water before performing the water change, and there was none that registered.

I registered over at Seachem to post on their forum, but it seems they OK registrations on the weekends but don't allow new members to post until they check them out (only on weekdays), so I'll have to wait a few days to post over there.
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Old 01-19-2013, 09:41 PM   #33
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One curious thing I noticed in your description - you said it doesn't smell. In my experience, new purigen has a distinct odor.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:10 PM   #34
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One curious thing I noticed in your description - you said it doesn't smell. In my experience, new purigen has a distinct odor.
when i pulled the bag out of the filter, it smelled kinda fishy. Not trying to be stupid there!!! It smelled like when you are down by the ocean, that saltwater aroma. That was after I pulled it out. Don't think it had a smell when new, although there was a bit of dew/fogging in the sealed bag before I opened it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 10:27 PM   #35
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I haven't used Purigen often, but I don't recall noticing the slightest bit of moisture. In fact mine was dry enough that it exhibited static cling when handling it. Dew/fogging sounds highly suspicious.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:14 AM   #36
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Spoke with Seachem today. I learned a few things which hopefully I can impart.

Purigen can either be a little damp or totally dry when it is received in its original, sealed, plastic bag. Both conditions are normal.

Salt, water softeners, chloride ions, and any other things brought up above have nothing to do with the issue. The tech I spoke with could not come up with any reason for the issue. The only thing that might have come up was a rapid PH change (which I didn't find), or overdosing of Prime (which also did not happen).

She did ask me about water hardness, but I informed her I did not have a test kit, and we moved on from there. There might be something to the hardness issue, but she did not dwell on it, and I didn't push the point.

Although not pertinent to my issue...Purigen should be kept under water (not moist, not damp, but totally surrounded with water) when stored in between uses. If it is allowed to dry out, it could become brittle and break down. I asked about storing it wet and possibilities of algae growth. She didn't seem to think it was an issue.

The rather quick color tranformation of my Purigen is most likely due to colorants/dyes/tannins in my water. The color change of the product is not due to organic nasties that it was pulling out of the water.

I also learned some things about Prime:

Prime locks onto the chlorine, chloramine , nitrates, nitites, metals and everything it's designed to lock onto, but for some of these items, it only locks onto them for a limited period of 24 to 48 hours. It is designed to allow certain beneficial products to slowly be released into the tank, where the filter or plants can make use of them.

I asked if there was something in the water that would make the bonds between Prime and the locked-up toxins break. Basically, I was asking if something could "shock" the Prime into letting go. I was figuring maybe it might act somewhat like carbon, such as when carbon is overloaded, it all of a sudden starts to leach toxins back into the water, but at much high rate than it originally absorbed(adsorbed?) them. I'm told that Prime cannot be shocked into releasing what it has locked onto (other than those beneficial items).

The final outcome....Seachem wants to see the Purigen I received, to test it. They are going to mail me a replacement, along with a return mailer for my use in returning my product. If nothing else, I will be sure that I have fresh, actual, non-contaminated product.

Last edited by andygold; 01-23-2013 at 04:31 PM.. Reason: Spelling?
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:24 AM   #37
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Interesting !
We'll look forward to hearing what Seachem has to say.
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Old 01-23-2013, 02:32 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andygold View Post
Spoke with Seachem today. I learned a few things which hopefully I can impart.

Purigen can either be a little damp or totally dry when it is received in its original, sealed, plastic bag. Both conditions are normal.

Salt, water softeners, chloride ions, and any other things brought up above have nothing to do with the issue. The tech I spoke could not come up with any reason for the issue. The only think that might have come up was a rapid PH change (which I didn't find), or overdosing of Prime (which also did not happen).

She did ask me about water hardness, but I informed her I did not have a test kit, and we moved on from there. There might be something to the hardness issue, but she did not dwell on it, and I didn't push the point.

Although not pertinent to my issue...Purigen should be kept under water (not wet, not damp) when stored in between uses. If it is allowed to dry out, it could become brittle and break down. I asked about storing it wet and possibilities of algae growth. She didn't seem to think it was an issue.

The rather quick color tranformation of my Purigen is most likely due to colorants/dyes/tannins in my water. The color change of the product is not due to organic nasties that it was pulling out of the water.

I also learned some things about Prime:

Prime locks onto the chlorine, chloramine , nitrates, nitites, metals and everything it's designed to lock onto, but for some of these items, it only locks onto them for a limited period of 24 to 48 hours. It is designed to allow certain beneficial products to slowly be released into the tank, where the filter or plants can make use of them.

I asked if there was something in the water that would make the bonds between Prime and the locked-up toxins break. Basically, I was asking if something could "shock" the Prime into letting go. I was figuring maybe it might act somewhat like carbon, such as when carbon is overloaded, it all of a sudden starts to leach toxins back into the water, but at much high rate than it originally absorbed(adsorbed?) them. I'm told that Prime cannot be shocked into releasing what it has locked onto (other than those beneficial items).

The final outcome....Seachem wants to see the Purigen I received, to test it. They are going to mail me a replacement, along with a return mailer for my use in returning my product. If nothing else, I will be sure that I have fresh, actual, non-contaminated product.
Thats very awesome of them! I hope you get an answer on this

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Old 01-23-2013, 05:51 AM   #39
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I just bought a bag, I was wondering if it matters where u put it in a canister filter. I put it in the very bottom.
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Old 01-23-2013, 10:34 AM   #40
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Seachem has been awesome every time I've talked to them too. Thanks for the account of what they said, I'll be interested to see what their tests might reveal. This whole thing has really piqued my curiosity.
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Old 01-26-2013, 02:17 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by nat72sherman View Post
I just bought a bag, I was wondering if it matters where u put it in a canister filter. I put it in the very bottom.
From my limited understanding of the product, I don't think it makes much difference where you put it in the canister as long as water flows through it. The only caveat I can see to placement would be to not have it as the first item in the canister. Not knowing whether your canister feed from the top or bottom, I would think you would want some floss or sponge before it so that the bag the Purigen is contained within would not get clogged with detritus. Again, this is only an uneducated opinion, but since it is acting as a chemical filtration stage, I'd like to have it sufficiently after a mechanical filtration stage.

Last edited by andygold; 01-26-2013 at 03:52 PM.. Reason: spelling
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Old 01-26-2013, 05:09 AM   #42
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Yes, you're right. Put the bag of purigen so that it is the last stage in the filter.
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Old 01-26-2013, 04:27 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andygold View Post
The pic of the bag by itself, the second one down...it's actually sitting in a zip-lock in that pic. In the pic of the tank, it is out of the zip-lock.

When first pulled out of the box, the mesh bag was sealed inside a plastic bag that was heat sealed closed. The color of the product was a slight off-white, similar to the color of old computer cases (slightly almond colored). It was the proper color as I've seen, from looking at the jars in the LFS. The colors in that second pic came from around 1 hour in my tank. That color would be most similar to a reddish, clay brick. when i said that the product was still dry...after rinsing it and taking it out from under the water flow, the resin did not hold onto any liquid, upon shaking it, next to no water dripped from the bag. Basically, it was not holding onto the water, it let it all drain out completely.

Well, after this little 5-minute test, besides everyone floating at the top, almost all the females gave birth. There are babies everywhere. I just did a 1 gallon water change to remove anything toxic in the water. While siphoning 1/2 the gravel I picked up close to a dozen babies.

I checked for chlorine in the tank's water before performing the water change, and there was none that registered.

I registered over at Seachem to post on their forum, but it seems they OK registrations on the weekends but don't allow new members to post until they check them out (only on weekdays), so I'll have to wait a few days to post over there.

I use Purigen in my emperor filters and love it but also like poly filter pad by Poly-Bio-Marine, They might be better for your needs .You would only need to cut a small piece for your filter and discard it and replace it when it turns dark brown.

I think polyfilter pads are the best for small filters.
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:50 AM   #44
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Will have to give Poly-Filters a try.

Received my replacement Purigen in the mail today. I guess Seachem has new packaging as the replacement is now in a colorful plastic bag. No box. Tear open the packaging bag and the Purigen is sitting inside ( no more clear, sealed inner bag). Along side the Purigen in its mesh bag is a sealed bag containing the instructions. I smelled the Purigen, and I did notice a chemical smell. It reminded me of a solvent-type of aroma, somewhat familiar, but couldn't quite place it.

Popped it into the filter, and in a few minutes all the adult fish were at the top of the tank mostly motionless, once again. So, I guess it has something to do with my water, and not counterfeit/old/bogus/contaminated Purigen. I'm going to leave it in a bit to see what happens to my elderly fish. I figure if there is some sort of toxicity going on, they'll be the first to go. The juveniles and new borns seem to be taking it in stride. They now have the run of the tank as all of the adults are huddled in masses at the top.

I noticed that the Trumpet snails were more active after the Purigen was placed into the filter. Some of the 1/10" long ones were headed up the sides of the tank, while a good many adults (3/4") who had been nose down in the gravel, came to the surface and were
moving around quite rapidly totally on top of the gravel.

I checked PH both before and after adding the bag, and it did not change. It's sitting right at 7.0
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

Last edited by andygold; 01-27-2013 at 03:26 AM.. Reason: Added pics
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Old 01-27-2013, 02:56 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andygold View Post
Will have to give Poly-Filters a try.

Received my replacement Purigen in the mail today. I guess Seachem has new packaging as the replacement is now in a colorful plastic bag. No box. Tear open the packaging bag and the Purigen is sitting inside ( no more clear, sealed inner bag). Along side the Purigen in its mesh bag is a sealed bag containing the instructions. I smelled the Purigen, and I did notice a chemical smell. It reminded me of a solvent-type of aroma, somewhat familiar, but couldn't quite place it.

Popped it into the filter, and in a few minutes all the adult fish were at the top of the tank mostly motionless, once again. So, I guess it has something to do with my water, and not counterfeit/old/bogus/contaminated Purigen. I'm going to leave it in a bit to see what happens to my elderly fish. I figure if there is some sort of toxicity going on, they'll be the first to go. The juveniles and new borns seem to be taking it in stride. They now have the run of the tank as all of the adults are huddled in masses at the top.

I noticed that the Trumpet snails were more active after the Purigen was placed into the filter. Some of the 1/10" long ones were headed up the sides of the tank, while a good many adults (3/4") who had been nose down in the gravel, came to the surface and were
moving around quite rapidly totally on top of the gravel.

I checked PH both before and after adding the bag, and it did not change. It's sitting right at 7.0
That is horrible, sorry for your loss! I would be devastated so you have my deepest sympathies!
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