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Old 04-29-2014, 04:59 PM   #1
kidrock
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Inter-breeding shrimps noob help


Hi, i am new to keeping shrimps around 7-8 months roughly. I have kept RCS, long nose, tiger and babulties.

My current tank temp is around 28deg Celsius due to summer.

I am planning to creates hybrids by using red rillis as base. What can i cross them with? I am told blue shrimps will help inject faint blue color in the middle section. Are there any other possibilities? I was also told to try crossing with fire reds or rcs. Will orange or yellow shrimps help or will they ruin the next gen.

Are there any sites where crossing of shrimps is documented? Something for me to get an idea what will work and what wont.

Thanks

Ryan
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Old 04-29-2014, 07:06 PM   #2
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There are only a couple you can cross and not cause wilds. Do you have lots of tank space? If you breed a Red rili with a blue Rili, yes it will make the blue in some midsections. But if you were to breed a Rili and a yellow you'd make ugly mud colored babies. Is there a purpose to the hybrid? It will take years depending on the outcome you want to get from cross breeding to finished product.
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Old 04-29-2014, 09:55 PM   #3
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This wouldn't be considered a hybrid, since these are different strains of the same species. Assuming you successfully make a new color, you would have a new strain, but this would only happen after a significant amount of selective breeding.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:28 PM   #4
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+ 1 to 0live, said it much better than me!!
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:46 AM   #5
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Just experimentation as a newcomer. Was looking to create strains like others since almost none except red rilli are sold at my place.
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oceangirl View Post
There are only a couple you can cross and not cause wilds. Do you have lots of tank space? If you breed a Red rili with a blue Rili, yes it will make the blue in some midsections. But if you were to breed a Rili and a yellow you'd make ugly mud colored babies. Is there a purpose to the hybrid? It will take years depending on the outcome you want to get from cross breeding to finished product.

Hey, my objective is to create beautiful strains like other using whats available to me. Very few rillis or other crosses are sold at my place. So I thought of attempting to create a few as a project.
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Old 04-30-2014, 02:48 AM   #7
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Quote:
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Hey, my objective is to create beautiful strains like other using whats available to me. Very few rillis or other crosses are sold at my place. So I thought of attempting to create a few as a project.
Takes time, effort, dedication, money, and patiences.
Having many tanks wouldn't hurt also.
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:39 AM   #8
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Takes time, effort, dedication, money, and patiences.
Having many tanks wouldn't hurt also.
I know and am game for it. I have 2 tanks atm i can dedicate. A 2ft scaped one and a 1ft planted one i will start with. I intend to cull(sell mostly) the bad ones to reduce space constraints.

Money is not a major issue if i am getting results and headed in the right direction.

I know it will take a few years before i get a stable line.

My major constrains at the moment is the temp. I need shrimps comfortable with 28 deg as thats the min i can get with fans in summer.
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Old 04-30-2014, 05:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kidrock View Post
I know and am game for it. I have 2 tanks atm i can dedicate. A 2ft scaped one and a 1ft planted one i will start with. I intend to cull(sell mostly) the bad ones to reduce space constraints.

Money is not a major issue if i am getting results and headed in the right direction.

I know it will take a few years before i get a stable line.

My major constrains at the moment is the temp. I need shrimps comfortable with 28 deg as thats the min i can get with fans in summer.
Really high, prone to bacterial wipe outs, had shrimp die daily with just a 5 degree different.

If money is not a major issue invest in a chiller?
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
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Really high, prone to bacterial wipe outs, had shrimp die daily with just a 5 degree different.



If money is not a major issue invest in a chiller?

Fair point. I understand that money is not an issue, but not keeping shrimp in their ideal conditions is a great way to make breeding/molting/living a stressful endeavor.

If you want to develop a strain, you will want to start with good stock, ideal housing and an expectation that you will keep all the shrimp you produce. Yes, you can sell culls, but it takes two to tango.
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Old 04-30-2014, 11:21 AM   #11
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Talk to soothing about selective breeding. I have started doing it myself. There are many threads here on the topic. You will be surprised by how much shrimp genetics don't Work like your thinking. You'll get wilds mixing any strain on neos. Best thing is to find a strain you like and work on a better color or focus, what you want to do from there. You can also find better deals here than you will at a LFS. You would be able to start. Colony and provide good shrimps to your area.

-Chris
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:41 PM   #12
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Did someone say selective breeding?

Someone else wants to share my passion? Yay! heh

You say you have no other shrimp around your area of India, so if you use RR and BR, you will have a nice mix of BR, RR, and BBRR. That's three shrimp already you can play with trying to master strains from.

The goal here would be:

RR= clear midsection
BR= All blue, no red
and BBRR= Blue with red rili highlights

The easiest of these to breed high quality would be BR. There's no pattern, and all you would focus on is the blue.

RR is a project in itself to create the high grade pattern. (head/tail) Without proper culling, you'll have Red Splotches. Many people work for years just on the pattern.

BBRR is by far the hardest to work with. Let's take away the challenge of the pattern for now. Just to have the red be a nice bright red is challenging. If the pigment is too light, the red appears to be maroon or purplish.

So, I'd say you are on the right quest if you are up to the task. Three different kinds of shrimp from RR x BR.

Two strains may already be set for you (RR and BR), but you will certainly find your challenge in trying to set a strain of BBRR.

As for other crosses, man is that complicated. Really has to do where the color lies in the DNA. Not all shrimp are created equal, so to speak. Almost ALL of the Neo davidi you see have been selectively bred to produce that color. What does that mean to you? It means that unlike mutations, cultivars can very rarely be mixed without scattering the modifiers that have been stacked up like a deck of cards. Without those cards in a stack again, the color is not reproduced- and the result is a wild shrimp.

Now, this is not necessarily bad. You can produce almost any color from wilds, after all- this is how we got the rcs. However I think I remember reading somewhere it took 7 years just for the cherry variation (not sakura or fire reds, etc), so you would be in for a very very very long road. Your best bet would be to just buy the shrimp cultivar you want if you intend to sell anyway.

Sorry for the book. heh
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Old 04-30-2014, 04:34 PM   #13
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Thanks guys for all the feedback. Ill start with red rillis. Does crossing them with red sakuras or fire red improve the red coloration? I was told so. Will pick some red rillis this weekend. Wanted to know if red or orange sakuras would be a good idea to breed with them.

Thanks
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Old 04-30-2014, 06:10 PM   #14
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Not orange unless you want wilds, but mixing RR with sakura or fires will help the hood coverage. Then you have to cull cull cull to get back to RR again.
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Old 04-30-2014, 08:21 PM   #15
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Quote:
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Not orange unless you want wilds, but mixing RR with sakura or fires will help the hood coverage. Then you have to cull cull cull to get back to RR again.

Cool thanks
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