Trying to find the "root cause"
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Old 01-01-2013, 08:52 AM   #1
parrottbay
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Trying to find the "root cause"


BBA and Spirogyra Algae
Some of this is in my 10G thread, but I don't like to look for answers/ post my problems on it. So here is what I need help with...

A pic of the algae in question can be useful. Several types are commonly called BBA. So I will post a picture some time tomorrow since it is later than I want it to be... but it is very small black spiky little half balls connected to areas.

The BBA algae is on the substrate where there is a lack in plants. It is evenly distributed throughout the tank so I can not really answer to say if it is in a high or low flow area, but is even on the exit of my filter. Today I noticed it on my DHG and a piece of my HC. There is no noticeable relation to lighting distance since it is on my output of my filter on top of the water, on left side big rock on top which puts it in the middle, and on the substrate obviously on the bottom.

The spirogyra algae is located on my DHG and Stem plants; I believe once I find the root cause to the BBA it "might" solve both problems.

My current set-up:
-Lights are 4x T5HO 2-3" above tank. Puts me at ~I have no idea above par at the substrate but IF I had to take a educated guess ALOT of people would say I have EXTREMELY way to much light going to the tank... Also, from observing my plants I think I need to go from 3-5 more inches higher and it would be perfect.
-24 ounce CO2 tank with a home built regulator that I paid way over the price I should have for but wanted to support the guy. No solenoid, ~1 bps. Before this I was using DIY yeast and everything was fine until I double the mixture and bottles into it before I switched to the paintball set up.
-I believe I am PPS-PRO dosing??? I was using Seachem products but switched to GLA's line of green fertilizer pack http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquari...rtilizers.html because my plants were suffering. The supplier I got the plants said to watch this video and purchase those ferts, so I did; Here is what I was using to dose with; 10 ml for the Macro and 5 ml for the Micro, the concentrations were taken from this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgS4jAF9Lk where it says to add Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4( one level teaspoon. Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) -4 lvl teaspoons and Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4) 6 lvl teaspoons for the 500 ml bottles. I was dosing switching every day starting with the Macros. I have wrote GLA on help with mixing these ferts and they were at first real aggressive with me since I was writing due to my shrimps dying at the same time I started dosing this and didn't even say they were sorry to hear that I lost most my shrimp, o well. So I re-wrote them leaving certain information out like the dying of my shrimp to get a better answer just asking them how to make a "starters mixture" that was safe of good to start out with; but they replied to do research....?? So here I am lost... LOL Since I have been lost I haven't been dosing as much in fear that the mixture was too strong so I diluted it by half and dosing on Monday with Macros and Tuesday with Micros and again Friday and Saturday with Sunday with W/C's with the diluted formula because of the high ammonia nitrates being a tad high also.
-Dark fluorite capped with ADA Amazonian; just added days ago; "didn't know it would cause an influx of ammonia" OOPS

-30-40% WC weekly with tap water with de-chlorinator

-CO2 schedule is constantly on due to no solenoid

-Light schedule is on at 5 AM to 6 AM; 10 AM to 1PM; 5PM to 7PM; 10PM to 11PM. Total of 7 hours.

-My filter I started out with is my HOB that I received with my 36 bow. I believe it is an Quiet Flow 30 Power Filter with a sponge filter added on the intake. I first started seeing these problems with algae when I switched filters with a brand new PO crap Marina S-10 because I thought it looked cool for the tank. WRONG! The Quiet Flow 30 Power Filter is back on the tank now due to the spyro algae, which btw has slowed the growth rate of it down at least I think BUT the BBA is on the filter as mentioned before :S....

I hope this helps find the cure to this disease LOL.

PS I used 2.5 ML of Hydrogen Peroxide to kill the spirogyra algae and it worked for 90% of it.

Any help is better than none....
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:49 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parrottbay View Post
BBA and Spirogyra Algae
Some of this is in my 10G thread, but I don't like to look for answers/ post my problems on it. So here is what I need help with...

A pic of the algae in question can be useful. Several types are commonly called BBA. So I will post a picture some time tomorrow since it is later than I want it to be... but it is very small black spiky little half balls connected to areas.

The BBA algae is on the substrate where there is a lack in plants. It is evenly distributed throughout the tank so I can not really answer to say if it is in a high or low flow area, but is even on the exit of my filter. Today I noticed it on my DHG and a piece of my HC. There is no noticeable relation to lighting distance since it is on my output of my filter on top of the water, on left side big rock on top which puts it in the middle, and on the substrate obviously on the bottom.

The spirogyra algae is located on my DHG and Stem plants; I believe once I find the root cause to the BBA it "might" solve both problems.

My current set-up:
-Lights are 4x T5HO 2-3" above tank. Puts me at ~I have no idea above par at the substrate but IF I had to take a educated guess ALOT of people would say I have EXTREMELY way to much light going to the tank... Also, from observing my plants I think I need to go from 3-5 more inches higher and it would be perfect.
-24 ounce CO2 tank with a home built regulator that I paid way over the price I should have for but wanted to support the guy. No solenoid, ~1 bps. Before this I was using DIY yeast and everything was fine until I double the mixture and bottles into it before I switched to the paintball set up.
-I believe I am PPS-PRO dosing??? I was using Seachem products but switched to GLA's line of green fertilizer pack http://greenleafaquariums.com/aquari...rtilizers.html because my plants were suffering. The supplier I got the plants said to watch this video and purchase those ferts, so I did; Here is what I was using to dose with; 10 ml for the Macro and 5 ml for the Micro, the concentrations were taken from this youtube video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GgS4jAF9Lk where it says to add Mono Potassium Phosphate (KH2PO4( one level teaspoon. Potassium Nitrate (KNO3) -4 lvl teaspoons and Potassium Sulfate (K2SO4) 6 lvl teaspoons for the 500 ml bottles. I was dosing switching every day starting with the Macros. I have wrote GLA on help with mixing these ferts and they were at first real aggressive with me since I was writing due to my shrimps dying at the same time I started dosing this and didn't even say they were sorry to hear that I lost most my shrimp, o well. So I re-wrote them leaving certain information out like the dying of my shrimp to get a better answer just asking them how to make a "starters mixture" that was safe of good to start out with; but they replied to do research....?? So here I am lost... LOL Since I have been lost I haven't been dosing as much in fear that the mixture was too strong so I diluted it by half and dosing on Monday with Macros and Tuesday with Micros and again Friday and Saturday with Sunday with W/C's with the diluted formula because of the high ammonia nitrates being a tad high also.
-Dark fluorite capped with ADA Amazonian; just added days ago; "didn't know it would cause an influx of ammonia" OOPS

-30-40% WC weekly with tap water with de-chlorinator

-CO2 schedule is constantly on due to no solenoid

-Light schedule is on at 5 AM to 6 AM; 10 AM to 1PM; 5PM to 7PM; 10PM to 11PM. Total of 7 hours.

-My filter I started out with is my HOB that I received with my 36 bow. I believe it is an Quiet Flow 30 Power Filter with a sponge filter added on the intake. I first started seeing these problems with algae when I switched filters with a brand new PO crap Marina S-10 because I thought it looked cool for the tank. WRONG! The Quiet Flow 30 Power Filter is back on the tank now due to the spyro algae, which btw has slowed the growth rate of it down at least I think BUT the BBA is on the filter as mentioned before :S....

I hope this helps find the cure to this disease LOL.

PS I used 2.5 ML of Hydrogen Peroxide to kill the spirogyra algae and it worked for 90% of it.

Any help is better than none....
I kinda skimmed all that, but I believe you've read my thread on my spirogyra treatment with H2O2. Yes, it appears to work for most of it, but then the spiro comes back. I'd recommend removing any inverts you might have and using AlgaeFix.

As for your lighting, what wattage bulbs are they? It sounds like you have TONS of light, which could very well be a big part of the problem. I'm also trying to fix a BBA problem. I only have 2x 39W T5HO on my 30 gallon, ~4'' above the water level, plus a glass top, which impedes light and decreases light intensity. I still have PLENTY enough light for growing the light-demanding stems that I have and my glosso carpets with no problem. I have my pressurized CO2 turned up to about 2.5-3bps. I use EI dosing with the same fert package you got. I have tweaked with a number of things including rinsing out filter sponges, increasing dosing, slightly decreasing dosing, and nothing has seemed to fix the problem causing the BBA. I don't know the PAR reading at the substrate, but I feel pretty confident it would be in the high-very high light range, and that's with only 2x 39W T5HO. I can't imagine how much 4x T5HO would be. My next step is to drill new pin holes in my canopy so I can raise my light another ~2'' (my light is a DIY 2x T5HO that is mounted as a shelf inside my canopy). I think too much light might be big part of the problem, or at least it's definitely not helping your situation.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:58 AM   #3
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Also, I have limited ability right now to increase the circulation in my tank, which might be another factor to consider for the BBA. I would get a Hydor koralia powerhead but I still feel like the smallest one, 240gph, would still be way too much circulation, causing my stems to bend over sideways in the current. I have a 425gph koralia that I've used in this tank before but the current it created was entirely too strong. I have now lent it to a friend to use on a 55 gallon.
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:46 PM   #4
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I have always been successful in treating algae by first fixing the light, ie photo period, intensity. (my co2 is running at optimum level). Then I focus on ferts and a lot of patience.
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:36 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AUvet14 View Post
I kinda skimmed all that, but I believe you've read my thread on my spirogyra treatment with H2O2. Yes, it appears to work for most of it, but then the spiro comes back. I'd recommend removing any inverts you might have and using AlgaeFix.

As for your lighting, what wattage bulbs are they? It sounds like you have TONS of light, which could very well be a big part of the problem. I'm also trying to fix a BBA problem. I only have 2x 39W T5HO on my 30 gallon, ~4'' above the water level, plus a glass top, which impedes light and decreases light intensity. I still have PLENTY enough light for growing the light-demanding stems that I have and my glosso carpets with no problem. I have my pressurized CO2 turned up to about 2.5-3bps. I use EI dosing with the same fert package you got. I have tweaked with a number of things including rinsing out filter sponges, increasing dosing, slightly decreasing dosing, and nothing has seemed to fix the problem causing the BBA. I don't know the PAR reading at the substrate, but I feel pretty confident it would be in the high-very high light range, and that's with only 2x 39W T5HO. I can't imagine how much 4x T5HO would be. My next step is to drill new pin holes in my canopy so I can raise my light another ~2'' (my light is a DIY 2x T5HO that is mounted as a shelf inside my canopy). I think too much light might be big part of the problem, or at least it's definitely not helping your situation.
I think you're right. +1. I battled two algae outbreaks for a whole month and won! Only to have the BGA and Hair algae start slowly coming back.

I think my two 10w Compact Fluorescent Lights (CFL) are a little too bright for my 10g low-tech planted tank. However, I think I could fix the algae permanently if I could get organic nutrients out of the water. It is also within the realm of possibility that I'm still dosing too much Flourish Comprehensive. Plant mass is also a little low after the algae debacle.

Pic: Recent, I doubt you can see the algae giving me problems now. Sorry, bad pic...
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Last edited by Django; 02-28-2013 at 12:27 PM..
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