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Old 08-09-2003, 04:02 AM   #61
Molly
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Oh it's more than diffentenly impacted the pocketbook! Do you know for sure it removes ammonia caused by the release from cloramine? :roll:
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Old 08-09-2003, 12:10 PM   #62
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Of all the companies out there I trust Seachem the most. When I look at the bottle of Prime and it states that it removes chlorine and chloramine I believe them. If you check their web site it also says it removes ammonia. It then goes on to say that it converts the ammonia to a safe non-toxic form that the tanks bio-filter can remove. So using Prime makes the ammonia non-toxic and available to the plants.
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Old 08-09-2003, 03:10 PM   #63
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From the bottle;

Removes chlorine, chloramine, ammonia,
Detoxifies nitrite and nitrate,
Provides slime coat

Prime is the complete and concentrated conditioner for both fresh and salt water. Prime removes chlorine, chloramine and ammonia. Prime converts ammonia to a safe, non-toxic form that is readily removed by the tanks' biofilter. Prime may be used during cycling to alleviate ammonia/nitrite toxicity. Prime detoxifies nitrite and nitrate, allowing the biofilter to more effiiently remove them. Prime also promotes the production and regeneration of the natural slime coat. Prime is non-acidic and will not impact pH. Prime will not over-activate skimmers. Use at start-up and whenever adding or replacing water.

directions: Use 1 ml (top mark of enclosed dispenser) for each 40L (10 gallons US) of new water. for larger doses, note that 1 capful (5ml) will treat 200L (50 gallons US). (Note the 2 and 4 L container's cap is 10ml). this does removes approximately 0.6 mg/L ammonia, 3 mg/L chloramine, or 4 mg/L clorine. May be added to aquarium directly, but better if added to new water first. If addding directly to aquarium, base dose on aquarium volume. Sulfur odor is normal. For exceptionally high chloramine concentrations, a double dose may be used safely. To detoxify nitrite in an emergency, up to 5 times normal dose may be used. If temperature is >30C (86F) and chlorine or ammonia levels are low, use a half dose.

I must say, that's well written. It covers all normal situations and the abnormal situations.
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Old 08-09-2003, 04:04 PM   #64
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Thanks Rex and anonapersona:

I'm going to get some Prime today and do another 50% water change.

Molly
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Old 08-10-2003, 01:57 AM   #65
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Hi Everyone:

I did a 50% water change, used Prime...nothing else, other than Stress Zyme (bio germy guys). After letting "cook" for 2 hrs here are my results:

Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0
PH 7.6
GH 9
KH 3
Ammonia 2.0-3.0

I would imagine that those stats will change by tommorrow, since it was kinda early to do the tests. One thing that does confuse me is why the ammonia test would jump up, seems it should have styed at .5-1.0????

Thanks again!

Molly
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Old 08-10-2003, 03:55 AM   #66
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No, the ammonia will show as present but due to the way the Prime binds it up it can't harm the fish. To accurately test for ammonia you would need a Nessler based ammonia test kit. Most common ammonia test kits will give a false positive when used with an additive such as Prime.
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Old 08-10-2003, 04:55 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Grigg
No, the ammonia will show as present but due to the way the Prime binds it up it can't harm the fish. To accurately test for ammonia you would need a Nessler based ammonia test kit. Most common ammonia test kits will give a false positive when used with an additive such as Prime.
Oops Rex, I think you have that mixed. It's the Nessler reagent that shows a false or high negative. What you need is the two step salicylate-type reagent test kit when using Prime, Amquel, etc. But, the major issue as Rex alluded to is that the ammonia is simply locked into a form of non-toxic ammonium that's biologically available for plants and the biofilter yet harmless to your fish.

Here's a link to the Amquel site, read the Contraindications for a brief outline of this issue.

Nessler verses Salicylate
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Old 08-10-2003, 02:09 PM   #68
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Slap me with a stick. I do have it backwards.
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Old 08-10-2003, 04:01 PM   #69
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Thanks Steve and Rex:

The link you sent was very helpful. I don't have any fish in the tank right now, still cycling, so from what I read, this could possibly help the biological filter development? I will be testing again this afternoon & now of course, I need to make a trip back to the pet store to get a differnt ammonia test kit

Thanks again!

Molly
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Old 08-11-2003, 02:25 AM   #70
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Hi Everyone:

Heres todays test results:

Nitrite .25
Nitrate 0
PH 7.2
GH 8
KH 3
Ammonia .5-1.0

Side notes:

yesterdays results Nitrite came up, guess dealing with the ammonia, of course now my tests are a bit incorrect huh? anyway ph dropped from 7.6 to 7.2, GH went form 9 to 8.

My thinking is I need to do another water change until I get 100% new water with just Prime, and of course get the proper test for ammonia now, or maybe a whole new test kit????? :?

Thanks!

Molly
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Omar is quite the little athlete who adores his toys and treats and just knows his person is out there!
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Old 08-11-2003, 02:50 AM   #71
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If you have any plant parts decaying , this will add to ammonia. That could be the slight change you saw, or they might have added more chloraimine one day for reasons you don't know.

If you have no fish yet, you can go a lot longer without worrying about the levels of ammonia nd nitrite. The whole concern about getting the Prime is to detox the ammonia and nitrite for the FISH. The plants love ammonia, locked up or not. We would fertilize with ammonium nitrate but it is so bad for the fish.

Watching the ph is more important now, IMO, as the biological processes are burning through the KH which buffers the pH of the tank. As the KH falls the ability to stabelize the Ph is falling and if the pH falls much it will harm the bacteria you are trying to cultivate now. So, that is the reason you will want to change water, to bring back that KH value.
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Old 08-11-2003, 03:04 AM   #72
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Good point! Ah maybe I'll give up being a webmaster and become chemist...sorry, naw I intend to do a 50% change again tommorrow...and get a new test thingy for ammonia. I know we have not much buffering capicity in our tap water, which is whay I added a fist of ground coral, to help the KH, but also, I was adding the wrong stuff to remove chlorine and cloramine, which ended up adding acid... I think :?

Guess I'm still confused!

Molly
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the image you see to the right is an adobtable pet from http://www.bestfriends.com/ His name is Omar, and heres his bio:
Omar is quite the little athlete who adores his toys and treats and just knows his person is out there!
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Old 08-11-2003, 12:07 PM   #73
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Molly, try to relax, you have been really smart to look carefully at all this now, before you've added fish. Do your best to study the chemistry, it is important. I find it ironic that even though Chemistry was the subject I enjoyed the least, along with History, those are the things that are now the centers of my hobbies.

I would think that the acid would then dissolved the coral and balance the KH rather rapidly. Maybe it is not rapid, however.
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Old 08-14-2003, 03:23 AM   #74
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Hi anonapersona:

Yep I tend to be a nervous norvus, dang it I want things right though, and get confused!

I got Prime, altough the nit wit at Petco cattioned me away from it and was reluctant to sell me the proper testing kit, but I went with the advise I have gotten here and went for it!

Having done two 50% water changes here are my new results using Prime and the new test equipment:

8/12:

Nitrite 1.0
Nitrate 20
PH 6.4
KH 3
GH 10
Ammonia 3.0

8/13:

nitrite 1.0
nitrate 20
Ph 7.6
KH 3
Gh7
Ammonia 3.0

Seems I'm all over the board with the water, one good note, I noticed today a new pet shop close (perhaps same water supply) also appears to be family owned. Top of their sign says aquariums and fish, so perhaps I might find someone that has the same local problems I have.

Hopefully.....
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Omar is quite the little athlete who adores his toys and treats and just knows his person is out there!
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Old 08-14-2003, 03:38 AM   #75
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Ok, compare that 8/13 to the tap water that you did recently. That was nitrate 5, pH 7.6, KH 4, GH 6 or 7. So you are seeing a build up of nitrates now (normal), the nitrite is still positive (but will drop later), the pH is now = to tap, the GH is approaching the tap GH, ammonia is high but bound so we won't worry about it.

remind me, do you have plants and good lighting?
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