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Old 08-03-2003, 04:48 AM   #16
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Rex I have to agree with you on that one...

Molly how long does it take the pH to crash?

Mike
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10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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Old 08-03-2003, 04:49 AM   #17
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Hi Everyone:

Gee I really appreciate your help! Right now I'm in midst of cycling again, I took all of the water out cleaned the rock completely and put them back in last week. the substrate is Flourite, I have a piece of driftwood I took out thinking it was to blame but made no difference. I have some rocks that are I beleive called egg rocks white and smooth as if in a river bed I use or would like to as planters in the tank, they are "glued" together with aquarium sylicone. That has been aged for over a year now.

One other note, I checked the kh and gh again today, now gh is up to 6 but kh is 1. p is still at 6.0.

To give myself to satisfaction I went to the pet store today and bout a few plants (unknown) looks like a houseplant spider plant and water wisteria with red coloration. Also got some coral sand and put a handful in.

Of course, the folks at the pet store are just as confused with my problems, but I have no really good pet stores within 30 miles so I am dependent on Petsmart ond Petco employees. The guy at Petco suggested I use RO water, said he had heard "horror" stories from folks from Mansfield, and I am on the Arlington Mansfield border.

It's kinda sad when you walk into a pet store and all the fish don black bands on their little fins :-(
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Old 08-03-2003, 04:53 AM   #18
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:cry:

Molly sorry to hear that! I just cant see water dropping that fast in pH....how long does it take again. THERE HAS to be something in the tank that is causing this...pH just does not drop that fast....again let us know how long it is taking to crash to 6.0 and below.

Mike
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100 Gal Planted, two Filstar XP3, Milwaukee SMS 122 pH controller, Milwaukee reg/bubble, compressed CO2, reactor 1000, 7 WCMM, 12 Ottos, 14 neons, 1 SAE, 3 German blue rams, 2 Florida Flag Fish

10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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Old 08-03-2003, 04:55 AM   #19
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Hi Mike:

It happens within 24 hrs of testing.
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Old 08-03-2003, 05:08 AM   #20
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Wow....that is amazing.....and your tap water (treated with your chlorine remover) stays the same, doesnt crash?

BTW...check out the new pics I posted under the photo album....I have just put some plants and fish in the tank...its under Mikes new 100 gallon!

Let me know what you think...you will be the first to see it!


Mike
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100 Gal Planted, two Filstar XP3, Milwaukee SMS 122 pH controller, Milwaukee reg/bubble, compressed CO2, reactor 1000, 7 WCMM, 12 Ottos, 14 neons, 1 SAE, 3 German blue rams, 2 Florida Flag Fish

10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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Old 08-03-2003, 02:37 PM   #21
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Too freaky! What is that acidic.
I would take the egg rocks out, and take the wood out. I would really try to figure out what is causing the pH drop before I added plants, crushed coral, anything.
See if the pH crashes in your aquarium filled with water and Flourite only. Put some tap water out in a couple of bowls. Add your dechlorinator to one bowl, and don't treat the other. See what happens. I would then spend a couple of dollars and try filling the aquarium with those one gallon jugs of spring water. They are about 70 cents apiece. See if the pH still crashes.
You need to be slow and scientific. Do one thing at a time. Keep track (notes?) on what you are doing. You really need to solve the pH crashing problem before you go any further. It's a pain, but in the long run you will have a successful aquarium that will give you a lot of enjoyment.

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Old 08-03-2003, 02:55 PM   #22
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Mike,

I agree with you 100%. You have to be methodical to rule out certain things.

Molly: Be patient...between all of us here and you keeping notes we will figure this out!!!!


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10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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Old 08-03-2003, 05:37 PM   #23
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Thanks everyone, I really appreciate this! Actually I did try testing the water in separate bowls, one just plain tap water, the next with the Start Right chlorine/cloramine remover, one with Start Right and Ace (cloramine amonia remover), and one the driftwood, Start right and ACE, left them for 5 days and the ph stayed level. Thats when I decided to do a 100% water change, cleaned the rocks and start over with new filter medium (sponge). I hadn't thought of the egg rocks as a possible culprit, good idea!

I think I'll repeat my tests, but in addition to the above do 2 more bowls, one with flourite, and one with the egg rock. This now brings me to another question. Since flourite is porous could it be possible that it has become contaminated by something along the way, and perhaps should be tossed out and replaced?

Thanks again,

Molly
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Old 08-03-2003, 05:44 PM   #24
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Molly,

Without going that far...do your tests and see how they come out...just ensure that you have alot of flourite in that bowl....also how much circulation are you running?

Flourite could harbor something but I seriously DOUBT that it is causing the overnight crash.

Remember take notes...be methodical....


Mike
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100 Gal Planted, two Filstar XP3, Milwaukee SMS 122 pH controller, Milwaukee reg/bubble, compressed CO2, reactor 1000, 7 WCMM, 12 Ottos, 14 neons, 1 SAE, 3 German blue rams, 2 Florida Flag Fish

10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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Old 08-03-2003, 05:57 PM   #25
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:roll:
Hi Mike:

I went downstairs to try to read the numbers on the filter, but no luck, it's an Aqua Clear filter intended for a 20 gal tank, I keep it a full force, along with an air pump connected to 2 airstones that are below the substrate.
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Old 08-04-2003, 01:05 AM   #26
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Hi Molly sorry it took so long to get back but the swamp cooler pump bit the big one and had to replace it...that did allow my tank to get a bit warmer and WHAMO...pearling plants!

I remember from my chemistry days that by blowing in a cup of water through a tube you can change the pH drastically. This is the same principle a CO2 system works on...you know making carbonic acid...yada yada yada...

Anyhow...I dont think this is the case but perhaps all the bubbles may be having an effect on your pH....Unless CO2 was going in there I dont know what could cause the acidity to increase (pH crash).

Mike
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10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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Old 08-04-2003, 03:00 AM   #27
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:roll:

Hi Mike: No prob, are you and your tank(s) cooler now? I was having major probs with Comcast today, no internet, no phone, no cable TV.

Anyway, I tested my tank again, KH is still in the dumper, however the PH is now at 7.2. I have my test bowls cooking, we'll see what that turns up.

Now I know I'm a long way off, but given the fact that PH has risen because I added the ground coral gives me a hope! I know that since I am cycling the tests can be skewed, amonia still at .05-.10 nitrite is dropping about .25 Nitrate is about 5.0.

There is one other thought that crossed my mind....we have big problem with Pharoh ants, the little tiny ones, they get into everything, wonder if after they do back flips into the tank mixed with the stuff I put in they become acid bombs???

Obviously, I'm stretching, but gee I wanna fix me prob!

Thanks again!
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Old 08-04-2003, 03:08 AM   #28
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Molly,

Your KH will probably remain in the dumper due to the fact it is poor coming out of your tap as well. Be patient...LOL....dont you hate that!

See how they all come out. Remember by adding more than one variable to the tank you cant tell which thing is causing what. Take it slowly.

BTW...I am glad to see that I am not the only victim of ComCRap....LOL.......

Take care...of to sleep for me!

Mike
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100 Gal Planted, two Filstar XP3, Milwaukee SMS 122 pH controller, Milwaukee reg/bubble, compressed CO2, reactor 1000, 7 WCMM, 12 Ottos, 14 neons, 1 SAE, 3 German blue rams, 2 Florida Flag Fish

10 Gallon...20 Endler's live bearers planted, peat/kitty litter/sand substrate

15 Gallon...Just Schultz Aquatic Plant soil
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Old 08-04-2003, 03:18 AM   #29
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Nite Nite John Boy, Also Thanks for kickin butt and takin names. The Tiger Roars!
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Old 08-05-2003, 02:30 AM   #30
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:roll:

Hi Mikes and Rex:

Gee you guys are great!

Well here is my test results today:

Tank first

ph 7.2
kh 3.0 (climbing)
gh 8 or 9 (son came in while I was counting so I lost count)
nitrite .25
nitrate 0
amonia .5-1.0

Bowl of Flourite, with no chemicals
ph 7.6
kh 4

Bowl with egg rocks and no chemicals
ph 7.6
kh 5

I think I will let the bowls "cook" a few days to see what happens, if all stays level I'll add the Start Right and ACE, then monitor that.

For the tank I think a 50% water change would do okay around Wed or Thurs. (was going to do it sooner but the pet stores are completely out of the bottled bio germies).

I was going to set up another bowl with just water and a air stone, but that could goof up the tests on the tank, since I would need to cut the air flow in the tank by 50%

Ah with all the help you have been giving, I think I become something more than a fish exterminator

One other note, I have two neighbors that have tanks, one a 50 gal with 2 chilids and a plcostomis (sp) his is fine, but the other has a 29 gal that had tetras, she lost all but one a few months ago, in a well established tank, with no previous probs. My husband suggested that something has gone astray with our water supply.

thanks again everyone!

Molly

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