Excel as a treatment for BBA? Experiences?
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Algae


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-28-2005, 09:43 PM   #1
motifone
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
motifone's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 648
Default

Excel as a treatment for BBA? Experiences?


Excel as a treatment for BBA?

I've got a little bit of BBA I need to treat (not the thread stuff, just the raised black tuffs). Aside from raising my Co2 from 30-40ppm to 40-50ppm, I've read some people have been using Excel to treat BBA. Even some users of pressurized CO2 seemed to have tried it. I thought I would start a thread for people to post and consolidate their findings:

1) Are you using Excel in addition to pressurized CO2?
2) Are you dosing the suggesting amount? Doubling?
3) Is your BBA low lying or thread/brush-like?
4) Your results and how long you've been treating.
motifone is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 03-28-2005, 10:04 PM   #2
Momotaro
Doesn't like Kool-Aid
 
Momotaro's Avatar
 
PTrader: (52/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hawthorne, New Jersey
Posts: 10,125
Default

I am doing it right now.

The idea is not to dose Flourish Excel, but to overdose it. No one seems to know why the Excel seems to have an effect of algae, but it appears to have one if the product is overdosed. Flourish Excel contains a glutaraldehyde compound. Glutaraldehyde is a chemical that is very similar to formaldehyde. It is a powerful disinfectant, sporocide and fixant. I am not sure if it is the chemical's sporocidal properties that seem to make it an efficient algaecide or if it is something else in the glutaraldehyde compound itself. Seachem themselves won't make any comments on the algaecidal properties of Excel. They seem to coyly acknowledge the fact in a round about way. Calling th product an algaecide would lead to many legal problems, so they are better of not mentioning or advertising Excel's algaecidal properties.

The idea is to overdose the product 2/3xs the recommended levels for a period of ten to fourteen days.

I found some BBA in my 75G and have been testing it out. I am on day 8 and have noticed the algae disappearing. I have been dosing 25ml at a time and have shut down my UV during this cycle. Glutaraldehyde is a delicate compound, so I was not sure if or how UV light would effect it. I figured the best thing to do would be to shut down the UV.

My cycle ends in a couple of days, so I can fill everyone in on my personal results.

Some other folks have tried using Excel and had success as well.

I am not sure if it is a quick cure, or a lasting remedy. I can't tell you if it has any long term negative effects. I will tell you if you do overdose Excel, you are doing it at your own risk!! Overdosing Flourish Excel can have adverse effects of your aquarium's fauna. Overdoses of flourish Excel have been known to kill fish. So, if you do overdose Flourish Excel use your head. keep an eye on your fish and stop dosing if your fish begin to show signs of stress.

Mike
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Momotaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 10:19 PM   #3
Jason Baliban
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (92/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Phoenixville, PA
Posts: 2,023
Send a message via AIM to Jason Baliban
Default

This is kind of an update to a post that motifone is reffering to. I will be more complete in this one.
46 Gallon
Pressurized Co2 30++ppm CO2
4 KH
7 GH
2x55watts 6700k + 2x13watts 5500k

Dosing EI
Day1) 50% H20 CHange dose 1/2Tsp KN03 3/8Tsp KH2P04 1/8Tsp K2S04
Day2) dose 10ml flourish
Day3)dose 1/2Tsp KN03 3/8Tsp KH2P04 1/8Tsp K2S04
Day4)same as day2
Day5) Add if needed - mostly nothing
Day6) same as day1
Day7) same as day2

I am dosing 18ml of excel per day. That is about 3x suggested.
I have been dosing for about 3 days and the BBA tuffs are already turning red. I dont know exactly what this means. I dont know what is going to happen next. I will keep you updated. If anyone has insite, that would be great. Here is a very very terrible picture of the algae. You can sort of make it out on the front leave and the back right leave. You can see how it has begun to turn red.



jB
Jason Baliban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 10:26 PM   #4
m.lemay
Planted Tank Guru
 
m.lemay's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Naugatuck, CT.
Posts: 2,647
Default

I've been doing it for about a week now and there seems to be very little effect on staghorn. I think the problem is the UV sterilizer is recking this compound before it has a chance to work.

So I'm starting over but this time I'm diconnecting the UV for 10 days. This staghorn is nasty. It feels like a worm between my fingers when i pick it out of the tank... nasty stuff.

Marcel
__________________
FILSTAR Pimp #2

75 gal heavily planted,50/50 Black beauty,Eco-complete substrate, Pressurised CO2 with solenoid, ph controller, AB Reactor 1000, 330 watts 9325K GE PC lighting,Ehiem Liquidoser, 2-Filstar xp3 canisters.
m.lemay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 11:03 PM   #5
motifone
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
motifone's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 648
Default

Sounds like the experiments are in progress. I will state the obvious and say, all of us, to our knowledge are keeping are nutrients in check and are resorting to Excel as a sort of final resort. Spending two hours separating and cutting BBA effected Tenellus leaves from healthy ones is not something I'd like to do every weekend. If there's something out there that will kill the spores, bring it on. I, too, have a UVS. I'll unplug it if I try this.

Is overdosing Excel more dangerous than blasting CO2 to 40-50ppm? Possibly.

For those (over) dosing Excel, what's your "fauna" like? List casualties, if any.

Mine: Praecox Rainbows, Cardinals, Harlequins, Rummies, Amanos, Cherry Shrimp, Ottos and SAE.

For the curious, here's mine. Not terrible, more like black pepper, but better to nip it in the bud:

motifone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 11:21 PM   #6
BSS
Wannabe Guru
 
BSS's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Oviedo, FL USA
Posts: 1,600
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momotaro
.... Flourish Excel contains a glutaraldehyde compound. Glutaraldehyde is a chemical that is very similar to formaldehyde. It is a powerful disinfectant, sporocide and fixant. I am not sure if it is the chemical's sporocidal properties that seem to make it an efficient algaecide or if it is something else in the glutaraldehyde compound itself. ....

Mike
Sure, Mike. Use lots of big, technical terms and impress us all even more !

Good data, gents. Can't wait to see how similar the experiences turn out to be. I've recently upped my CO2 and what little BBA I had seems to be disappearing. But, should that fail, Excel is next on the list.

Brian.
__________________
46g bf, XP3 w/ vertical spray bar, CO2 w/ SMS122 & diffuser,100% Flourite, 96w+55w cf AHS, AGA Member
BSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-28-2005, 11:51 PM   #7
jhoetzl
Planted Tank Activist
 
jhoetzl's Avatar
 
PTrader: (10/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Scotch Plains, NJ
Posts: 1,020
Send a message via MSN to jhoetzl
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momotaro
Glutaraldehyde is a chemical that is very similar to formaldehyde.
Don't get any ideas there! I know you were thinking about taking some home and giving that a whirl too
jhoetzl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2005, 12:10 AM   #8
m.lemay
Planted Tank Guru
 
m.lemay's Avatar
 
PTrader: (9/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Naugatuck, CT.
Posts: 2,647
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by motifone
Sounds like the experiments are in progress. I will state the obvious and say, all of us, to our knowledge are keeping are nutrients in check and are resorting to Excel as a sort of final resort. Spending two hours separating and cutting BBA effected Tenellus leaves from healthy ones is not something I'd like to do every weekend. If there's something out there that will kill the spores, bring it on. I, too, have a UVS. I'll unplug it if I try this.
This is definitely a last resort for me, as it should be for everyone. And yes, my nutrients are all, in excess as per EI method.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motifone
Is overdosing Excel more dangerous than blasting CO2 to 40-50ppm? Possibly..
Well I've had my CO2 at 50 ppm for months now with no problems but you gotta make sure that there's a slight surface current to keep O2 levels up at night.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motifone
For those (over) dosing Excel, what's your "fauna" like? List casualties, if any.

Mine: Praecox Rainbows, Cardinals, Harlequins, Rummies, Amanos, Cherry Shrimp, Ottos and SAE.
I have Boesemani rainbows,Harlequins,Ottos, and several bolivian rams with no adverse affects, but I don't have any invertibrates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motifone
For the curious, here's mine. Not terrible, more like black pepper, but better to nip it in the bud:
You're algae is not bad at all, but it looks like you've been maintaining it pretty well with trimming..

Marcel
__________________
FILSTAR Pimp #2

75 gal heavily planted,50/50 Black beauty,Eco-complete substrate, Pressurised CO2 with solenoid, ph controller, AB Reactor 1000, 330 watts 9325K GE PC lighting,Ehiem Liquidoser, 2-Filstar xp3 canisters.
m.lemay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2005, 01:08 AM   #9
briandmiles
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (25/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Temecula, CA
Posts: 565
Default

Gluteraldehyde is, in fact, degraded by photons in the UV spectrum. It is commonly used in my field of work and always in an opaque, covered container. You may want to reduce your photoperiod as well since that would have a dual effect of less gluteraldehyde degradation and less light for the algae. In high concentrations it needs 8-12 hours to work so I wouldn't be suprised if it takes at least 8-10 days in the concentrations that overdosing Flourish Excel would produce. Contact for humans isn't a problem so I would assume the plants and animals should be fine if you don't overdo it.

Brian
__________________
Eheim Pimp #134
briandmiles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2005, 03:20 AM   #10
Momotaro
Doesn't like Kool-Aid
 
Momotaro's Avatar
 
PTrader: (52/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hawthorne, New Jersey
Posts: 10,125
Default

Reasonable contact with Flourish Excel (eyes, mucous membranes excluded)shouldn't be a problem. I wouldn't hold my nose over the Excel and inhale deeply, but it is relatively safe. I believe Brian is referring to contact with Flourish Excel as being non problematic.

I have also worked with glutaraldehyde. Any contact with glutaraldehyde would be a problem. It is a nasty chemical that should be neither inhaled or come in contact with skin.

Quote:
Contact for humans isn't a problem so I would assume the plants and animals should be fine if you don't overdo it.
Remember, if you are dosing Excel to combat algae, you are over doing it! You have to over do it for the Excel to work. Watch your fish!

Mike
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Momotaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2005, 05:12 AM   #11
PeteyPob
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PeteyPob's Avatar
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: San Antonio TX
Posts: 930
Default

My BBA is like the one in the second picture but 3x worse. I want to try this method once I get my new scedule in place and dosing regimen set. If my new schedule doesnt work then I will be more than happy to try it. Does anyone have BBA the peppering kind on their glosso? I do and its killing the heck out of them. Oh yea, so when trying this method would it be better to dose it on the Trace days with the csm+b or on the macro days?
Pete
PeteyPob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2005, 03:56 PM   #12
snake
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (40/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Austin,tx
Posts: 223
Default

My 75 used to have terrible BBa out breaks that I could not control w/ my present equipment set up(diy co2). I started using Excel to supplement my lack of CO2 and used it only at RECCOMENDED doses. Mindful,I'm at moderate light(2.3 wpg) and have a medium/heavy fishload,so I started the the EI and loaded up tank with a few more stem plants,also I do water changes every 3 days(discus). I no longer have the huge BBA outbreaksas a matter of fact no algae except small ,yet persisent amount of BGA.
I will probably continue to use Excel in my doseing(recently got 2 liter from Bigal).
I hane had NO fauna death that I can attribute to it.

Dean
__________________
75 Gal Discus,Crypts,Bacopa,Vals,Ludwigia,Java Fern,Hygro+2 Swords,Alternanthera,java moss ,anubias,P.stellata,lotus
12 Gal Nano, Shrimp,Pygmy Corys,Riccia, Ludwigia,, crypts, HC,nana petite
snake is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2005, 04:29 PM   #13
rain-
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
rain-'s Avatar
 
PTrader: (36/100%)
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Finland
Posts: 714
Default

I really can't tell much about getting rid of algae since I've been really lucky with not having much algae in my tanks, *knocks on wood*. But I remember having one or two bushes of brush algae on my apple tree branch and they turned red and withered away when I used Excel. I didn't overdose though. I used DIY CO2 thingy too.
rain- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2005, 07:33 PM   #14
Momotaro
Doesn't like Kool-Aid
 
Momotaro's Avatar
 
PTrader: (52/100%)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hawthorne, New Jersey
Posts: 10,125
Default

I think your elimination of the BBA in your aquarium snake had more to do with your following the EI and adding Excel than the use of Excel alone at recommended doses.

I noticed the BBA about two weeks ago. I have no idea how it got there, but it did. My nutrient parameters were pretty good, and my CO2 level was fine too. My conditions were similar to that of Marcel. Despite good parameters, I had algae.

I agree with Marcel. Excel overdosing should be a last resort. Get a handle on your parameters and push your CO2 levels up before trying anything else.

Mike
__________________
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Momotaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2005, 08:44 PM   #15
motifone
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
motifone's Avatar
 
PTrader: (4/100%)
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 648
Default

Hmm. This has been an interesting thread, Is it BBA season?

I checked my KH last night and readjusted my CO2 to pump about 40-50ppm of CO2 into the tank -- that's with a KH of 5 and a shifting pH of 6.3 (off) -6.5(on) -- on my Milwaukee controller. My "off" setup used to be 6.5.

I might pick up a 500ml bottle of Excel from online while I'm ordering a few other goods tonight. Since my nutrients seem to be in check and I am dosing EI style, I might also try dosing Excel at the recommended dose first. My algae isn't bad, but there's been enough to raise a flag. Better to nip it in the bud before it gains a greater foothold.
motifone is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:46 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012