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Old 01-19-2012, 02:39 AM   #1
JEden8
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Dwarf Sag or Dwarf Hair Grass


So I currently have dwarf sag that I'm trying to grow as a foreground plant i my 90 gallon because I couldn't find any dwarf hair grass. The dwarf sag hasn't taken off yet and I can get some dwarf hair grass tomorrow. Would you get the dwarf hair grass or stay with dwarf sag? What looks better? What grows faster?

Any and all input is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
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Old 01-19-2012, 02:46 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by JEden8 View Post
So I currently have dwarf sag that I'm trying to grow as a foreground plant i my 90 gallon because I couldn't find any dwarf hair grass. The dwarf sag hasn't taken off yet and I can get some dwarf hair grass tomorrow. Would you get the dwarf hair grass or stay with dwarf sag? What looks better? What grows faster?

Any and all input is greatly appreciated! Thanks!
I cannot speak about how fast dwarf hair grass grows in my 90... because I can't grow it. It needs pretty high light and benefits a lot from Co2. The dwarf sag grow fine though. Mine has really taken off under low light with just a tad of Co2. From a 10 inch patch about half my tank is carpeted in 3 months with dwarf sag.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:30 AM   #3
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I cannot speak about how fast dwarf hair grass grows in my 90... because I can't grow it. It needs pretty high light and benefits a lot from Co2. The dwarf sag grow fine though. Mine has really taken off under low light with just a tad of Co2. From a 10 inch patch about half my tank is carpeted in 3 months with dwarf sag.
I am growing DHG with low light and pressurized CO2, EI dosing. It hasn't reached full thickness yet but is definitely growing well.



Under lights that people have measured in the 30-40 PAR range, though I have no meter (T5NO lighting with Coralife reflectors):


4 weeks growth:



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Old 01-19-2012, 06:50 AM   #4
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I am growing DHG with low light and pressurized CO2, EI dosing. It hasn't reached full thickness yet but is definitely growing well.



Under lights that people have measured in the 30-40 PAR range, though I have no meter (T5NO lighting with Coralife reflectors):



Try it in a 2 foot tall 90.

Not saying it can't be done, I'm just saying it's pretty hard. Getting that kind of PAR to the bottom of a 2 foot tank without algae issues is tough.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:44 PM   #5
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So since I'm not using pressurized C02 should I stay away from hair grass?
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:55 PM   #6
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So since I'm not using pressurized C02 should I stay away from hair grass?
In my opinion, yes. It's not that the Co2 is required for hair grass...it's that hair grass likes relatively high light levels...the kind of light levels that require Co2 to prevent algae issues.

That's just my opinion, certainly not set in stone.
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Old 01-19-2012, 04:59 PM   #7
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Give the sag some time. Mine was very slow for months then....boom, took off like a rocket!
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:00 PM   #8
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Give the sag some time. Mine was very slow for months then....boom, took off like a rocket!
I would to go with dwarf sag, hairgrass won't grow well, you will just end up with these ghetto patches of hairgrass that won't spread.

Like monkeyfish said, let the dwarf sag settle in your tank, then it will plant runners carpeting your tank.I prefer the look of dwarf sag over hairgrass. Dwarf sag just has that natural look I love.
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Old 01-19-2012, 06:22 PM   #9
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I've got both in my 55 under about 4wpg with no co2. I dose the full line of seachem products(flourish, excel...) religiously. They both took a month or so(probably longer for the sag) to really take off but now are growing really well! They probably aren't doing as well as they could with pressurized co2 but I haven't had the chance to take the leap($$$). I'm torn at this about which one I like better. They both look really cool. I will also add that I had both in the tank with 2wpg prior to adding another light and the sag did much better then the dhg with the depth of my 55.
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Old 01-19-2012, 08:47 PM   #10
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Awesome! Thanks everyone for the help! Sticking with the Dwarf Sag.
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:35 PM   #11
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Default Dwarf Hairgrass Needs Moderate To High Lighting, CO2 & Fertilizer To Grow Optimally

Quote:
Originally Posted by JEden8 View Post
So I currently have dwarf sag that I'm trying to grow as a foreground plant i my 90 gallon because I couldn't find any dwarf hair grass. The dwarf sag hasn't taken off yet and I can get some dwarf hair grass tomorrow. Would you get the dwarf hair grass or stay with dwarf sag? What looks better? What grows faster?

Any and all input is greatly appreciated! Thanks!

Over the past two years I've spent about $200 on *dwarf hairgrass, attempting to get it to carpet, and at the time knowing nothing about using pressurized CO2 or fertilizer tabs as well as high tech fluorescent lighting needed to get dh to carpet.

* I purchased it from Arizona Aquatic Gardens & Doctors Foster And Smith.

Even though the dh was in good shape when I received it, most of it turned brown and eventually died.

Over the course of the past few years I have learned how important the proper combination of fluorescent lighting (in this instance T-5), the spectrum of lighting (in this case 6700K and 18000K), pressurized CO2, fertilizer tabs and weekly dosing with liquid fertilizer are in getting dh to grow that lush green color that it is when we receive it from the petstore, as well as how to get dh to carpet.

And you don't need to use Eco complete or the other nutrient based substrates which can be very expensive. This author uses sand as a substrate because the plants can easily root in it, and because sand's inert, it has no chemical impact on the buffers in my aquarium's water.

I have a 20 gallon long aquarium that up until two and a half months ago was sparsely planted with dh that was just barely surviving. It had rooted in several areas of the tank, but was not carpeting, and its color was a dullish green.

I was using Seachem Flourish fertilizer tabs and about 2.5 watts of T5 lighting (6700 and 18000 spectra) and dosing with Flourish liquid fertilizer twice a week.

I was also using homemade (by fermentation process) CO2 which was very erratic. This turned out to be the weak link in the system.

I then decided to replace the homemade CO2 system with a Fluval CO2 88 pressurized system, and it has made a major difference in how the dh is growing.

In the past two and half months the dh has turned a lush green and nearly carpeted the entire bottom of the 20 long tank. I use one bubble per second which means that the Fluval's 88 gram canisters usually last about a month.

Using one bubble every three seconds the canister lasts almost two months (keeping in mind that I turn the CO2 system off at night), however, the growth is not as intense, yet still noticeable.

I recently made the investment in a 5 lb CO2 setup for my 37 gallon planted tank, and it has made a big difference in growing Rose Sword plants in that tank.

The 37 gallon is almost 2 feet high which presents other challenges that fishkeepers with shorter tanks don't have.

Specifically, my 37 gallon aquarium is near the limit in which T5 lighting will work effectively, and because the lighting is so far from the bottom of the aquarium, algae tends to grow on the upper portion of tank and any items (as such as filter intake tubes and heaters that are placed close to these lighting systems.

Plants will always have to compete with algae, however, tall aquariums represent an additional challenge by making it that much more difficult for plants to compete with algae.

And speaking of algae, the only real problem in using pressurized CO2, T-5 lighting, and fertilizer dosing, is that algae growth can increase dramatically to the point where your water literally turns green.

The algae thrives on all the nutrients that your plants are supposed to be absorbing!

As such, in this author's opinion, based on my own experiences with this system and algae growth, the solution is to add a uv sterilizer to your aquarium, which will not only kill off algae spores before they can overrun your aquarium, but also kill off harmful bacteria and other pathogens that can be harmful to your fish.

Given that a uv sterilizer kills off many different forms of bacteria, it makes sense to use it periodically instead of 24/7, unless you are trying to clear up an algae bloom.

This author also uses a Vortex D-1 to polish the water in my aquariums, which works well in conjunction with an inexpensive AquaTop IL 10UV ultraviolet sterilizer that I have plumbed into the return line of my Fluval 305 canister filter.

The above protocol will enable the fishkeeper to grow most aquatic plants with a minimum of hassle, while keeping algae growth under control.

The downside is the initial expense of all of the items. The pressurized CO2 systems cost a lot more than homemade CO2, but are far more effective - especially in larger aquariums.

The T5 bulbs also need replacing at least once a year, and every four months or so, the fertilizer tabs need to be replaced. And there's also
the dosing of liquid fertilizer a few times a week. However, this is the price to be paid for having a beautifully planted aquarium that your fish can thrive in.

Most fishkeepers find that if they purchase quality equipment (tanks, filters, heaters, lighting, CO2 systems etc.) that the initial expense is well worth it, given that the equipment is reliable and can last for decades, while enabling them to enjoy one of the greatest hobbys ever invented.

Jim
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Old 02-12-2012, 04:49 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmyblues View Post
Over the past two years I've spent about $200 on *dwarf hairgrass, attempting to get it to carpet, and at the time knowing nothing about using pressurized CO2 or fertilizer tabs as well as high tech fluorescent lighting needed to get dh to carpet.

* I purchased it from Arizona Aquatic Gardens & Doctors Foster And Smith.

Even though the dh was in good shape when I received it, most of it turned brown and eventually died.

Over the course of the past few years I have learned how important the proper combination of fluorescent lighting (in this instance T-5), the spectrum of lighting (in this case 6700K and 18000K), pressurized CO2, fertilizer tabs and weekly dosing with liquid fertilizer are in getting dh to grow that lush green color that it is when we receive it from the petstore, as well as how to get dh to carpet.

And you don't need to use Eco complete or the other nutrient based substrates which can be very expensive. This author uses sand as a substrate because the plants can easily root in it, and because sand's inert, it has no chemical impact on the buffers in my aquarium's water.

I have a 20 gallon long aquarium that up until two and a half months ago was sparsely planted with dh that was just barely surviving. It had rooted in several areas of the tank, but was not carpeting, and its color was a dullish green.

I was using Seachem Flourish fertilizer tabs and about 2.5 watts of T5 lighting (6700 and 18000 spectra) and dosing with Flourish liquid fertilizer twice a week.

I was also using homemade (by fermentation process) CO2 which was very erratic. This turned out to be the weak link in the system.

I then decided to replace the homemade CO2 system with a Fluval CO2 88 pressurized system, and it has made a major difference in how the dh is growing.

In the past two and half months the dh has turned a lush green and nearly carpeted the entire bottom of the 20 long tank. I use one bubble per second which means that the Fluval's 88 gram canisters usually last about a month.

Using one bubble every three seconds the canister lasts almost two months (keeping in mind that I turn the CO2 system off at night), however, the growth is not as intense, yet still noticeable.

I recently made the investment in a 5 lb CO2 setup for my 37 gallon planted tank, and it has made a big difference in growing Rose Sword plants in that tank.

The 37 gallon is almost 2 feet high which presents other challenges that fishkeepers with shorter tanks don't have.

Specifically, my 37 gallon aquarium is near the limit in which T5 lighting will work effectively, and because the lighting is so far from the bottom of the aquarium, algae tends to grow on the upper portion of tank and any items (as such as filter intake tubes and heaters that are placed close to these lighting systems.

Plants will always have to compete with algae, however, tall aquariums represent an additional challenge by making it that much more difficult for plants to compete with algae.

And speaking of algae, the only real problem in using pressurized CO2, T-5 lighting, and fertilizer dosing, is that algae growth can increase dramatically to the point where your water literally turns green.

The algae thrives on all the nutrients that your plants are supposed to be absorbing!

As such, in this author's opinion, based on my own experiences with this system and algae growth, the solution is to add a uv sterilizer to your aquarium, which will not only kill off algae spores before they can overrun your aquarium, but also kill off harmful bacteria and other pathogens that can be harmful to your fish.

Given that a uv sterilizer kills off many different forms of bacteria, it makes sense to use it periodically instead of 24/7, unless you are trying to clear up an algae bloom.

This author also uses a Vortex D-1 to polish the water in my aquariums, which works well in conjunction with an inexpensive AquaTop IL 10UV ultraviolet sterilizer that I have plumbed into the return line of my Fluval 305 canister filter.

The above protocol will enable the fishkeeper to grow most aquatic plants with a minimum of hassle, while keeping algae growth under control.

The downside is the initial expense of all of the items. The pressurized CO2 systems cost a lot more than homemade CO2, but are far more effective - especially in larger aquariums.

The T5 bulbs also need replacing at least once a year, and every four months or so, the fertilizer tabs need to be replaced. And there's also
the dosing of liquid fertilizer a few times a week. However, this is the price to be paid for having a beautifully planted aquarium that your fish can thrive in.

Most fishkeepers find that if they purchase quality equipment (tanks, filters, heaters, lighting, CO2 systems etc.) that the initial expense is well worth it, given that the equipment is reliable and can last for decades, while enabling them to enjoy one of the greatest hobbys ever invented.

Jim
Thanks for all the info! I ended up just sticking it out with the dwarf sag as I've had good luck with it in the past. Just another good point that the dhg will do much better with pressurized co2.
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Old 02-12-2012, 06:01 AM   #13
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dhg should grow fine with a decent light hell i had some with a single t8 no reflector over a 5g and no co2 and its spreading with runners everywhere, so high light is very overrated for most plants it just grows slower so recoupe time and trasition times are longer which can kill if let go beyond a point. both have there ups an downs its all about what u want bla bla blah. try both see what u like best thing imo. and any plant will do better with co2.
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Old 02-12-2012, 03:37 PM   #14
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for the life of me, I can't grow DHG.. I have 6500k pc lighting in my bio cube, paintball co2, use flourish and excel.

I tried growing DHG for months, and it got me frustrated. and I read somewhere here in the forum that dwarf sags grow like crazy like wildfire.. and I just had to try it. 3 weeks later after planting, dwarf sag took over the 14g tank like BBA.

3 months later.. I had to pull everything out, and probably gave 75 nodes/plants as a RAOK.. and to think I only started with 5.

in retrospect, dwarf sag is good plant to a frustrated beginner like I was.
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Old 12-07-2012, 12:42 AM   #15
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Default Dwarf Hairgrass Growing Nicely With 2.4 Watts Of T5 Lighting

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daximus View Post
I cannot speak about how fast dwarf hair grass grows in my 90... because I can't grow it. It needs pretty high light and benefits a lot from Co2. The dwarf sag grow fine though. Mine has really taken off under low light with just a tad of Co2. From a 10 inch patch about half my tank is carpeted in 3 months with dwarf sag.

I have been growing dh and microsword successfully in various lighting conditions for the past few years.

The lighting systems have ranged from 4.8 watts of T5 lighting per gallon (6700K & 18000K) to just 2.4 watts. Using a sand substrate, Flourish plant tabs and T5 lighting, with both pressurized and DIY fermentation CO2, I have three fully carpeted aquariums of microsword and dwarf hairgrass.

In fact, in one of the aquariums, I have actually stopped using CO2 injection and just use 18000K T5 lighting - a bit over 3 watts per gallon,
and have seen significant growth.

I also use uv sterilizers in all three tanks to keep the algae and bacterial growth to a minimum, which helps plant growth tremendously, since the plants don't have to compete with the algae and bacteria.

I also dose with Flourish liquid fertilizer once a week.

I started growing dh and microsword in a 20 long a few years ago with no success. Then I began reading posts on message boards like this one to see what fishkeepers were doing to have successful plant growth, added a few T5 lighting systems, plant tabs and injected CO2, and since then my plants have grown quite well.

Using two 24" 24 watt GLO T5 lighting systems in my 20 gallon long (4.8 watts of light per gallon) plant growth was tremendous.

In fact, I recently used some trimmings from my 20 long in two other aquariums I recently started, and the dh and microsword have completely carpeted in the new aquariums just a few months later.

I moved one of the 24" GLO lighting systems to a new tank, which has left me with only 2.4 watts of T5 lighting in the 20 gallon, and the plant growth is still quite good.

A few weeks ago I also started a 5.5 gallon nano tank for breeding guppies, and took some of the microsword from one of these newer tanks and planted it in the 5.5, which is now taking root.

These plants are expensive to purchase, so it's nice to finally have enough growth so that I don't need to spend money buying plants for new aquariums, whenever I decide to set a new one up.

As for planted aquaria, I can't overstate the importance of using a uv sterilizer to enhance plant growth and to keep your water crystal clear. These uv sterilizers really do work quite well when combined with T5 lighting, fertilizer tabs and CO2 injection.
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