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Old 12-13-2012, 05:59 AM   #61
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I have not had the time to read through everything and I am not sure if you have finally decided on a path to take for stocking. I did however want to say that a 180gal Rainbowfish tank would be awesome. there are about 50+ species of rainbowfish. The more popular ones include M.bosmani, M.Praecox,M.Herbertaxelrodi. Tons of colors and variations, they are very active fish, hardy and extremely fun to watch when the lights go on as they start the breeding frenzy lol

here is a good read by one of the experts in rainbowfish. There are quite a few species that are not available in the U.S due to Australian export laws, but there are a pretty good group of people here that are keeping some pure genetic strains of many of the rainbows that are just plain amazing fish!
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:44 AM   #62
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I haven't finalized the list.. having problems with a bacterial infection in my harlequin rosboras.
That's actually a really interesting idea... I'll read up on them for sure.

Any chance they're compatible with rams and kribs? If the tank is at 26Celcius, and the pH sits around 7.6 woudl they coexist? Or would aggression be a problem? Thanks for the input!

Edit: Also, I live in Australia so there should be some available.. Though I've never actually seen any in pet stores.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:56 AM   #63
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That temp range seems to fall right into the range of most species of Rainbows. I had my herbertaxelrodi (yellow rainbows) and some M. Praecox (dwarf neon) in with a breeding pair of apisto's and they did just fine. Most rainbows spend time in the mid to upper region of the tank, Apsto, Ram and Cribs tend to stay near the bottom of the tank. 7.6ph is also in the range of most rainbows. many of the species of rainbow being kept are in river systems where seasonal water changes affect PH and hardness, so they are pretty adaptable. I did not see where you were from when I posted from my phone. I am jealous lol.

Here is a link to a website setup by THE expert in Ausi and Papua new guinea rainbows.
Take a look and see whats available. Ohh... and then there is Sanj's rainbow tank, simply stunning here is a link to his tank on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZpw8jEcktk&feature=plcp

This one has some great coloring with the rainbows in a feeding frenzy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhXc8mAOzz0


and here is the species website.
http://rainbowfish.angfaqld.org.au/Melano.htm

if you had not been able to figure it out... I am obsessed with these little guys lol


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Originally Posted by Perchance View Post
I haven't finalized the list.. having problems with a bacterial infection in my harlequin rosboras.
That's actually a really interesting idea... I'll read up on them for sure.

Any chance they're compatible with rams and kribs? If the tank is at 26Celcius, and the pH sits around 7.6 woudl they coexist? Or would aggression be a problem? Thanks for the input!

Edit: Also, I live in Australia so there should be some available.. Though I've never actually seen any in pet stores.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:22 AM   #64
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Holy cow there are so many species... It's insannneee. How am I supposed to choose a favorite? Or even several I could consider including.

Thanks for those vids! WIll check them out when YOutube comes back up working.. Keeps flickering and shutting down my browser. Weird.


If you could get any from Australia which would you choose?
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:33 AM   #65
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Holy cow there are so many species... It's insannneee. How am I supposed to choose a favorite? Or even several I could consider including.

Thanks for those vids! WIll check them out when YOutube comes back up working.. Keeps flickering and shutting down my browser. Weird.


If you could get any from Australia which would you choose?
I Really, Really, Really want M.Gracilis, its one of the species no longer available in the U.S. due to export laws from Australia. I would love some of the larger rainbows as well. G.Wanamensis, M.lacustris, M.parkinsoni are just a few I would LOVE to have. I would certainly add Bosmani to the list too. Unfortunately the above species get to large for my soon to be running 40B rainbow tank, but they would look pretty impressive in your 180.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:10 AM   #66
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Hmm ok well looking around I can get some air freighted from Cairns at the top of Australia for $28 and around $5 per fish.. They're collected from billabongs, swamps and rivers around there and bred in large ponds.

That's fairly cheap, isn't it? They seem absolutely lovely.. And big enough to hold their own...

I found I love the ones from Cato River, the Melanotaenia trifasciata. I also love the Marry River ones (FAVORITE), Melanotaenia splendida inornata, and Drysdale River ones Melanotaenia australis, the Desert Rainbow Fish which is a Northern Territory variety; Melanotaenia splendida tatei, the original brood for these were collected in a bog pool on the side of a highway hahaha.

Then I also love the Bosemani variety, the Lake Kutubu Rainbow (M.Lacustris) that you suggested! And some other red variety I saw.. I've spent WAY TOO long looking at these hahaha

What do you think of the species I listed? How many could go in a 180? The threadfins are also adorable, and apparently school really well.. But I don't think they could hold the aggression from the rams/kribs.

You might not be able to find any nice images of the ones I'm talking about also, as the coloring here apparently differs greatly and the images on google seem inaccurate. I'll message you with a link to one of the sites I'm using to look at these gorgeous fishies aahaha
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:18 PM   #67
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Hmm ok well looking around I can get some air freighted from Cairns at the top of Australia for $28 and around $5 per fish.. They're collected from billabongs, swamps and rivers around there and bred in large ponds.

That's fairly cheap, isn't it? They seem absolutely lovely.. And big enough to hold their own...

I found I love the ones from Cato River, the Melanotaenia trifasciata. I also love the Marry River ones (FAVORITE), Melanotaenia splendida inornata, and Drysdale River ones Melanotaenia australis, the Desert Rainbow Fish which is a Northern Territory variety; Melanotaenia splendida tatei, the original brood for these were collected in a bog pool on the side of a highway hahaha.

Then I also love the Bosemani variety, the Lake Kutubu Rainbow (M.Lacustris) that you suggested! And some other red variety I saw.. I've spent WAY TOO long looking at these hahaha

What do you think of the species I listed? How many could go in a 180? The threadfins are also adorable, and apparently school really well.. But I don't think they could hold the aggression from the rams/kribs.

You might not be able to find any nice images of the ones I'm talking about also, as the coloring here apparently differs greatly and the images on google seem inaccurate. I'll message you with a link to one of the sites I'm using to look at these gorgeous fishies aahaha
Melanotaenia trifasciata. I think either location color variant are great! I agree with you the Marry river ones are some of the nicer ones. I bet if you look hard enough you will find someone around you that breeds them. If you get a chance, you might like the variant that comes from Rocky Bottom Creek, very intense reds and blues.

Melanotaenia splendida inornata These are the big guys in the video. Great fish, These are also among one of the most hybridized of the rainbows. I am not too worried about your source since the site goes into great detail to describe the capture locations. There are a few minor color variants of these too. The ones from south alligator River are some of my favorite, displaying a bit more green in the fins.

Melanotaenia australis Another great choice, I see these sometimes in a few of our LFS's.

Melanotaenia splendida tatei, this is a sub species of the splendida. For some reason there are a TON of these guys from different locations just different enough to classify them individually. If you go to keep two separate sub species of this fish make sure you can tell them apart. (especially the females)

All of the Melanotaenia species can hybridize with each other. While it is fairly rare in a closed aquarium environment it is something to keep an eye on. If you wish to breed any of them do so in a separate tank with a known male and female pair. Many of the females look similar to each other with very subtle differences in color and shape. It is frowned upon to knowingly put hybrids out there, so if you do have hybrids let anyone know that they are so.

Threadfin These guys are my favorite small rainbows. They are shy, and cautious and might not do well with the larger bows. not because of aggression on the larger bows part. They move slower in the water, and have VERY tiny mouths, so they might get out competed for food. There little mating dance is stunning to see! The body turns steel blue, and the fins a mixture of red, pink, and yellow! great little guys.

These little guys are very addictive. I have only kept a few species, but my list of "must keep someday" is VERY long lol.

One thing to keep in your mind if these are a choice. Male only tanks are done, the only problem is the fish color. They are TONS more colorful if females are present. For roughly 15 min. after lights come on in the tank they do the mating dance with a female. They will flash a stripe along the top of there head on and off, and flare with the colors of the fish becoming VERY intense. Males sparing usually is harmless, they circle around each other while flaring their fins. Great to watch. They are a slow growing fish as well. So the ones you get from Aquagreen might not be as colorful as they appear in the pictures right off the bat. Usually they start getting colors as they near sexual maturity. The high backs in the males come with age as well, there are pictures out there of very old rainbows that are almost circular lol. I usually keep a male/female ratio of 1:1 some recommend 1:2.

In the link I posted earlier, there is another link for the E-book PDF, Adrian Tapin did a great job on it, and it is my go to resource for rainbows. There are several photos from different collection points per fish, so you can see what color forms are out there.

Also check out Rainbow-fish.org and rainbowfish.info they are dedicated rainbow forums and a great source of info.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:47 PM   #68
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Melanotaenia trifasciata. I think either location color variant are great! I agree with you the Marry river ones are some of the nicer ones. I bet if you look hard enough you will find someone around you that breeds them. If you get a chance, you might like the variant that comes from Rocky Bottom Creek, very intense reds and blues.

Melanotaenia splendida inornata These are the big guys in the video. Great fish, These are also among one of the most hybridized of the rainbows. I am not too worried about your source since the site goes into great detail to describe the capture locations. There are a few minor color variants of these too. The ones from south alligator River are some of my favorite, displaying a bit more green in the fins.

Melanotaenia australis Another great choice, I see these sometimes in a few of our LFS's.

Melanotaenia splendida tatei, this is a sub species of the splendida. For some reason there are a TON of these guys from different locations just different enough to classify them individually. If you go to keep two separate sub species of this fish make sure you can tell them apart. (especially the females)

All of the Melanotaenia species can hybridize with each other. While it is fairly rare in a closed aquarium environment it is something to keep an eye on. If you wish to breed any of them do so in a separate tank with a known male and female pair. Many of the females look similar to each other with very subtle differences in color and shape. It is frowned upon to knowingly put hybrids out there, so if you do have hybrids let anyone know that they are so.

Threadfin These guys are my favorite small rainbows. They are shy, and cautious and might not do well with the larger bows. not because of aggression on the larger bows part. They move slower in the water, and have VERY tiny mouths, so they might get out competed for food. There little mating dance is stunning to see! The body turns steel blue, and the fins a mixture of red, pink, and yellow! great little guys.

These little guys are very addictive. I have only kept a few species, but my list of "must keep someday" is VERY long lol.

One thing to keep in your mind if these are a choice. Male only tanks are done, the only problem is the fish color. They are TONS more colorful if females are present. For roughly 15 min. after lights come on in the tank they do the mating dance with a female. They will flash a stripe along the top of there head on and off, and flare with the colors of the fish becoming VERY intense. Males sparing usually is harmless, they circle around each other while flaring their fins. Great to watch. They are a slow growing fish as well. So the ones you get from Aquagreen might not be as colorful as they appear in the pictures right off the bat. Usually they start getting colors as they near sexual maturity. The high backs in the males come with age as well, there are pictures out there of very old rainbows that are almost circular lol. I usually keep a male/female ratio of 1:1 some recommend 1:2.

In the link I posted earlier, there is another link for the E-book PDF, Adrian Tapin did a great job on it, and it is my go to resource for rainbows. There are several photos from different collection points per fish, so you can see what color forms are out there.

Also check out Rainbow-fish.org and rainbowfish.info they are dedicated rainbow forums and a great source of info.

Thanks again for all the info and help, it's fantastic!


I am worried about hybridization, I wouldn't want that to occur. It's difficult finding photos of females which are for certain the species I'm looking at and not a misrepresentation or already a hybrid...

I decided that I'd go with the Mary River over the Desert sub species of the Spledidas, just to make it easier on me.. They seems too similar.

I'm thinking the Boesemanis (depspite being overdone) would look great with the Mary River M. splendida inornata. The yellow with the blue/green I think would look nice if I had 6 of each? Or is that not enough or each variety?

Yeah I was thinking they'd be practically white at 4cm big, but that's ok... More time for me to adore them as they grow And even then, I'm pessimistic about them looking as great as the photos ;P Just a guide image, I suppose

I was planning on a 1:1 ratio, but on a few of the factsheets of AquaGreen he mentions maybe keeping 2 males to one female to keep their colors nice, would that cause undue stress, though?

I really like the Kutubu's you suggested (M.Lacustris), but read they can get nippy when older? I know you've been unable to keep them yet but you seem to know so much anyways, so is this true at all?

If I did the Boesemanis and the Mary Rivers, I think the Western M.Australis would add a nice touch or red.

I've seen the "Salmon Red Rainbows" and the shape of them isn't fantastic always, what do you think of these? They're bright, sure.. But I'm not sure I like them.

So sorry to absolutely BOMBARD you with questions, but you clearly love these fish and now that I have the image in my head I don't think I'll let it go ahaha


EDIT: With the threadfins, in a densely planted tank, would they feel more at ease? Or if they matured with the other rainbows, maybe? I don't want to put them in if they wont be happy.. But they are adorable and a nice group could be really sweet in my tank
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:06 AM   #69
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I think I'm going to go with, to begin with so I don't shock the tank:

6 x Cato River M. splendida inorata
6 x Mary river M. trifasciata
12 x Threadfins

Is it stupid to think that an large addition of plants at this point will help stop an ammonia spike?


Then later on in increments

6 x Drysdale River M. Australis
6 x Boesemanis
4 x Neon Blue M. Praecox (dwarf neons? I think are also a common name? They're only 2 inches)

Would that be too overstocked? The sizes of most are 7cm (>3inches), and 10cm (4 inches) for most, but less than 2 inches for the threadfins...

Bascially 24 medium rainbows in a 180 gallon? Also filtration is a sump and Aqua One 2700... Still too heavy on stocking, do you think?
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Old 12-15-2012, 06:40 AM   #70
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Thanks again for all the info and help, it's fantastic!


I am worried about hybridization, I wouldn't want that to occur. It's difficult finding photos of females which are for certain the species I'm looking at and not a misrepresentation or already a hybrid...

I decided that I'd go with the Mary River over the Desert sub species of the Spledidas, just to make it easier on me.. They seems too similar.

I'm thinking the Boesemanis (depspite being overdone) would look great with the Mary River M. splendida inornata. The yellow with the blue/green I think would look nice if I had 6 of each? Or is that not enough or each variety?

Yeah I was thinking they'd be practically white at 4cm big, but that's ok... More time for me to adore them as they grow And even then, I'm pessimistic about them looking as great as the photos ;P Just a guide image, I suppose

I was planning on a 1:1 ratio, but on a few of the factsheets of AquaGreen he mentions maybe keeping 2 males to one female to keep their colors nice, would that cause undue stress, though?

I really like the Kutubu's you suggested (M.Lacustris), but read they can get nippy when older? I know you've been unable to keep them yet but you seem to know so much anyways, so is this true at all?

If I did the Boesemanis and the Mary Rivers, I think the Western M.Australis would add a nice touch or red.

I've seen the "Salmon Red Rainbows" and the shape of them isn't fantastic always, what do you think of these? They're bright, sure.. But I'm not sure I like them.

So sorry to absolutely BOMBARD you with questions, but you clearly love these fish and now that I have the image in my head I don't think I'll let it go ahaha


EDIT: With the threadfins, in a densely planted tank, would they feel more at ease? Or if they matured with the other rainbows, maybe? I don't want to put them in if they wont be happy.. But they are adorable and a nice group could be really sweet in my tank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perchance View Post
I think I'm going to go with, to begin with so I don't shock the tank:

6 x Cato River M. splendida inorata
6 x Mary river M. trifasciata
12 x Threadfins

Is it stupid to think that an large addition of plants at this point will help stop an ammonia spike?


Then later on in increments

6 x Drysdale River M. Australis
6 x Boesemanis
4 x Neon Blue M. Praecox (dwarf neons? I think are also a common name? They're only 2 inches)

Would that be too overstocked? The sizes of most are 7cm (>3inches), and 10cm (4 inches) for most, but less than 2 inches for the threadfins...

Bascially 24 medium rainbows in a 180 gallon? Also filtration is a sump and Aqua One 2700... Still too heavy on stocking, do you think?
I would really not worry about hybridization if the tank has more than a few rainbows in it, chances are they will eat the eggs.

Most females are silvery with a hint of the male colors IE. the herbertaxelrodi has a slight yellow color to the females ect.

I have not had a chance to keep the Lacustrus so I have no idea of the behavior as they age. Check out the forums I posted a few posts ago, they might be able to shed some light on this.

Bosmani are ALWAYS a good choice lol they are great looking fish!

The salmon red rainbows are pretty neat, they are not a Melanotania species, and have a slightly different look than the Melonotania species do.

All rainbows will feel right at home in a densely planted tank. the threadfins are very shy around other rainbows, so you will need to make sure you get food down to them, they do not compete well with more hyper species.

Plants will certainly help with the cycle. I would wait until the tank is completely cycled before adding any fish. You can also help the cycle along by putting a cocktail shrimp in the tank near the filter inlet, which will help the cycle speed up. The addition of plants, and the cocktail shrimp you might be able to half the cycle, but make sure Nitrites and Ammonia are not registering on a liquid test kit before you stock the tank with anything.

As for the stocking level, I am not going to be much help here with such a large tank and stocking it to capacity. I tend to run my tanks with heavy stocking and 50% water changes each week due to the stock level and the EI fertilizing.

I do not mind the questions, so ask away
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:08 AM   #71
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Yeah the tank's cycle finished a bit over two weeks ago... Been sitting on 0 ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for longer that that but I only added some harlequins around 2 weeks ago..

Then I had the bacterial infection in them and they're in a hospital tank.. Despite medicating and even the water in the hospital tank not registering any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate, I keep loosing them.. They wont be going back in my display anyway. I'm too paranoid about spreading it.

I've kept 'feeding' the bacteria in the tank with (probably too much) fish food and just letting it give off some ammonia. The the display should be sweet and ready

What I meant with the plants was, if I'm adding a large number of fish, would the addition of plants at the same time help stop and ammonia spike?

Thanks! I've been in contact with Aquagreen, and also been on the Rainbowfish.info forum and the site you posted which has some great articles and awesome info of each species!

I guess I'll start of with a couple of groups - see if I want bigger groups or extra species and just feel it out haha

What are you usual quarantine processes? Is it stupid to think that stock from Aquagreen wouldn't need quarantining because he would quarantine his brood stock and then all the fish wouldn't be exposed to any other outside influences?

I have tanks and 'cycled media' but what do you think? If I do QT them how long do you suggest? I've read 30 days, but if I treat with a preventative, broad spectrum anti-bacterial or parasitical medicine should I just follow their instructions. or do you think this kind of medicating is useless?

Thanks again! You'll probably regret mentioning rainbows eventually hahaha
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Old 12-15-2012, 07:38 AM   #72
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Yeah the tank's cycle finished a bit over two weeks ago... Been sitting on 0 ammonia, nitrite and nitrate for longer that that but I only added some harlequins around 2 weeks ago..

Then I had the bacterial infection in them and they're in a hospital tank.. Despite medicating and even the water in the hospital tank not registering any ammonia, nitrite or nitrate, I keep loosing them.. They wont be going back in my display anyway. I'm too paranoid about spreading it.

I've kept 'feeding' the bacteria in the tank with (probably too much) fish food and just letting it give off some ammonia. The the display should be sweet and ready

What I meant with the plants was, if I'm adding a large number of fish, would the addition of plants at the same time help stop and ammonia spike?

Thanks! I've been in contact with Aquagreen, and also been on the Rainbowfish.info forum and the site you posted which has some great articles and awesome info of each species!

I guess I'll start of with a couple of groups - see if I want bigger groups or extra species and just feel it out haha

What are you usual quarantine processes? Is it stupid to think that stock from Aquagreen wouldn't need quarantining because he would quarantine his brood stock and then all the fish wouldn't be exposed to any other outside influences?

I have tanks and 'cycled media' but what do you think? If I do QT them how long do you suggest? I've read 30 days, but if I treat with a preventative, broad spectrum anti-bacterial or parasitical medicine should I just follow their instructions. or do you think this kind of medicating is useless?

Thanks again! You'll probably regret mentioning rainbows eventually hahaha
I will never regret mentioning these fish lol they are my absolute favorite group of fish.

I usually cycle for a month no matter where they come from. I keep a close eye on them to if any problems crop up during that time and medicate accordingly. Yea, plants will certainly help with a small ammonia spike.
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Old 12-15-2012, 08:50 AM   #73
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Hahah, they are pretty sweet fish. And being natives makes them awesome.. It's good to support native Australian aquaculture too


'Cycle', did you mean quarantine for a month?. I guess I'll quarantine.. I was hoping it wouldn't be necessary. I mean, if a group all in quarantine together, and a problems arises, chances of it spreading are high.. If they go straight into the display which is currently empty, and they all get sick.. I'd catch them straight away and move them to a sick tank... Is that just being lazy? I mean.. There aren't any fish in the display for new fish to give a disease to. Unless I'm treating for internal parasites that I can't see just as a preventative measure, then isn't quarantining them not really doing anything..?

I don't know. For the first group of fish to go in the tank, from a reputable source, isn't quarantine redundant? Whereas for future fish or ones from an unreliable source should probably be quarantines anyways?

Sorry again :P Just trying to see the logic behind it all
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:03 PM   #74
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If the fish are sick then you would have to treat the entire tank and possibly damage the biological filter and plants or catch them to place in a hospital tank and probably damage the plants.

If the fish had something really bad and anything they were in has to be sterilized you would lose all your plants and possibly want to replace your substrate and filter media as well.

Find something to use as a quarantine tank!
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:54 PM   #75
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Hahah, they are pretty sweet fish. And being natives makes them awesome.. It's good to support native Australian aquaculture too


'Cycle', did you mean quarantine for a month?. I guess I'll quarantine.. I was hoping it wouldn't be necessary. I mean, if a group all in quarantine together, and a problems arises, chances of it spreading are high.. If they go straight into the display which is currently empty, and they all get sick.. I'd catch them straight away and move them to a sick tank... Is that just being lazy? I mean.. There aren't any fish in the display for new fish to give a disease to. Unless I'm treating for internal parasites that I can't see just as a preventative measure, then isn't quarantining them not really doing anything..?

I don't know. For the first group of fish to go in the tank, from a reputable source, isn't quarantine redundant? Whereas for future fish or ones from an unreliable source should probably be quarantines anyways?

Sorry again :P Just trying to see the logic behind it all
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathyy View Post
If the fish are sick then you would have to treat the entire tank and possibly damage the biological filter and plants or catch them to place in a hospital tank and probably damage the plants.

If the fish had something really bad and anything they were in has to be sterilized you would lose all your plants and possibly want to replace your substrate and filter media as well.

Find something to use as a quarantine tank!
Yea lol I meant Quarantine. It is much cheaper to medicate a 10 gal. tank than a 180g tank. There are several bacterial infections that can happen that are EXTREMELY hard to treat to the point people just tear down the tank and start from scratch. Quarantining fish is one way to avoid such bacteria. and if it does crop up, sterilizing a 10g is cheaper and quicker than a 180g.

Some fish will shed the virus/bacteria into the water column, so even if you pull the initially sick fish out of the tank, you will still have to do a treatment on the entire 180.

The Q-tank does not have to be elaborate, a simple bare bottom 10g with a cheap light fixture and filter.
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