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Old 12-05-2012, 10:32 AM   #16
Perchance
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Awesome...Yeah I could up the number of the Harlequins, I didn't want to overstock but I think it'll be ok.

Yeah I still have a lot of reading to do on Discus..They and the Rams will be the final additions once I'm really comfortable will all the other fish and plants being healthy. I have a spare 3 foot tank I was hoping would be alright for a Discus QT also.

You have some experience with Rams, if I introduce four, will they pair and fight? Or kind of school, with a pair and two that tag along?

I really love the Sterbai cories, they're cute and interesting, though I've rarely seen them locally.. Probably have to order online.

That'd be great. I plan on it being fairly heavily planted. I'm reading the thread Beginners Guide to Discus currently haha. Thanks again!



Edit: I MAY already be reconsidering discus.. They might be more of a I'll aim for them and try to get everything perfect, but if it's not going perfectly I'll probably stay clear.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:03 PM   #17
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I'm still unsure which would be better, a large shoal of Diamond Tetras or Lemon Tetras..

Which are less likely to nip or annoy other fish, and which look better in your opinions?
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:49 PM   #18
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Id go with lemon tetras over diamond tetras, the splash of red over their eye is really pretty with all the green of the plants and from what Ive searched around lemon tetras are supposed to be pretty peaceful.

And yeah.. discus while gorgeous are a handful to keep, I think you're doing the right thing in gearing your tank towards them but waiting before actually getting them. A beautiful and healthy planted tank with dwarf cichilids, tetras and cories is plenty to look at already and can be a total gem without any fish beyond that.
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Old 12-05-2012, 06:28 PM   #19
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I do not have much experience with most of the fish on your list, but my initial response is to consider larger groups of fewer species. I have a school of 44 rummynose tetras and they have changed my definition of what constitutes a "school". In a tank this size I would consider anything under 12-15 individuals an experiment which you later fix by buying more or taking them out. A real school in this tank would have 20-25 individuals IMO. Exception: the discus or other large center piece fish.

So in your case I would get more of or eliminate the loaches, cats, otos, rasboras. The kribs and rams are not schoolers and are special cases, but again I would consider just one or two of the three you list.

Why? This may be personal preference, but I find the overall scene more peaceful with fewer species. The view is less of a jumble and more of a coherent environment. Watch any underwater video short of a coral reef and you will see what I mean.

How's this list?
15-20 sterbai cats
25 lemon tetras
12-15 otos
15-20 harlequins
6 discus (same color)
one or two pair kribs/rams


Just my thoughts and probably worth what you paid for them....
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:06 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomfromstlouis View Post
I do not have much experience with most of the fish on your list, but my initial response is to consider larger groups of fewer species. I have a school of 44 rummynose tetras and they have changed my definition of what constitutes a "school". In a tank this size I would consider anything under 12-15 individuals an experiment which you later fix by buying more or taking them out. A real school in this tank would have 20-25 individuals IMO. Exception: the discus or other large center piece fish.

So in your case I would get more of or eliminate the loaches, cats, otos, rasboras. The kribs and rams are not schoolers and are special cases, but again I would consider just one or two of the three you list.

Why? This may be personal preference, but I find the overall scene more peaceful with fewer species. The view is less of a jumble and more of a coherent environment. Watch any underwater video short of a coral reef and you will see what I mean.

How's this list?
15-20 sterbai cats
25 lemon tetras
12-15 otos
15-20 harlequins
6 discus (same color)
one or two pair kribs/rams


Just my thoughts and probably worth what you paid for them....

Thanks, I'm definitely considering narrowing my choices down and going with fewer species but larger and more simple/cohesive groups... I suppose the choices are also overwhelming. I was planning on at least 20 Lemon tetras, and the biggest school.. But could always add more if, once in the tank, it doesn't look like enough.

I was thinking the Harlequins would be a smaller, but still large school... maybe 20 of these, then 30 Lemons? is that too much?

I didn't realize Otos actually schooled?

I do like the idea of choosing just one catfish... But at the same time i love the different look of the Emeralds. Dilema haha


But I see what you're getting at and will have to think about what I really want long term.

Thank you very much, your ideas are really appreciated and helpful
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:14 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siggav View Post
Id go with lemon tetras over diamond tetras, the splash of red over their eye is really pretty with all the green of the plants and from what Ive searched around lemon tetras are supposed to be pretty peaceful.

And yeah.. discus while gorgeous are a handful to keep, I think you're doing the right thing in gearing your tank towards them but waiting before actually getting them. A beautiful and healthy planted tank with dwarf cichilids, tetras and cories is plenty to look at already and can be a total gem without any fish beyond that.

Yeah and I think I;ve read Lemons are better schoolers and less nippy or other fish. And they stay smaller, which I like.

While talking to my LFS they tried to convince me that the Kribs and Rams would outright eat the Rosboras? Is that correct at all?

Certainly, I still hope to get discus, but I feel like placing them, in a newbie planted tank, is a rather tight line. Especially with their low tolerance of nitrate and such, which is usually higher in planted tanks. So I'll just see how it goes! Thanks again
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Old 12-06-2012, 05:42 AM   #22
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With my experience with discus i quickly realized that i started to care so much for them that i sacrificed a lot of my existing tank. I eventually cleared out all my denisonii barbs angels and clown loaches just so they could get a decent amount of food.

Obviously the planted tank is something everyone wants to achieve but after raising discus to be adults i can say that if i were to do it again theres no doubt that i would skip all the hassle and just go barebottom until they are adults. I had a fairly good amount of plants and soon saw the hassle everyone on simplydiscus was talking about that ignored. It'll save you so much work its not even funny! Not trying to discourage you from giving them an awesome planted home but it is without doubt a whole lot easier. Of course this depends on the size of the discus you want to get
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Old 12-06-2012, 07:23 AM   #23
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Yeah, I think at this point I'd rather the planted tank and community, as opposed to the discus. That is, if I HAD to pick. I am hoping I'll be able to maintain a small group when the tank's mature.

I like a variety of fish too much to do solely a species specific tank, I think.

But thanks for the input, it's nice to hear from someone how has first had experience with discus. When you did keep them, did you even have them in a planted tank? Did it get too difficult to keep the water as clean as it is needed to be.

Also, the natural pH of my rain water is about 7.2. I would like it lower, but it would be more stable here... Do you think that would be suitable?
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Old 12-06-2012, 10:28 AM   #24
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Some rasporas are tiny and kribs and rams will eat them. Harlequin rasporas get close to 2" when fully grown so I think they would be safe. I've had neons without a problem with rams. It can depend on the individual fish I guess. Cichlids are fun like that.
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Fauna: 3 amano shrimp
Flora: hairgrass, pgostemon helferi, staurogyne repens
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Old 12-06-2012, 11:11 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Siggav View Post
Some rasporas are tiny and kribs and rams will eat them. Harlequin rasporas get close to 2" when fully grown so I think they would be safe. I've had neons without a problem with rams. It can depend on the individual fish I guess. Cichlids are fun like that.

Heh, well.. I can rehome them, if they do get too hard to handle. I added 4 more Harlequins Rosboras, but they developed white spot straight away. So, I've raised the temperature to 29/30C, but had already lost one and another one died later, despite not having any visible spots. 2 of the other look particularly bad, but the other 10 are healthy looking. They were all from the same pet shop, so I don't know if it was the newer 4 that all got ill or what.... I plan to do a large water change tomorrow and am adding garlic to their food. Would a 50% water change be alright?

I'm reluctant to medicate or even ass aquarium salt to the tank after reading so many conflicting opinions. Sigh. Hopefully the plants can cope with the higher temp momentarily.

Should of quarantined and will do so in the future. (Stupid, but I just thought Freshwater fish wouldn't really require it so much. Especially being the ONLY new fish in the tank)

Anyways I checked our your journals and I really adore your tank, the Penguin tetras are sweet as and the scape is sensational. I love love love that driftwood piece. Am looking for some like that myself. Are they available online at all? Local is fairly scarce.
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Old 12-06-2012, 02:25 PM   #26
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lol, this is funny cause I still am in the same boat, just different fish. I dropped 32 balloon lamp eyes in my tank and thought I got shorted fish lol. I still am debating whether or not to get more and/or some rummynose. Going to have to wait and see what 9 grown roselines make the tank look like. I would pick the main fish you want to school and add to them until you "feel" like it is big enough.
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Old 12-06-2012, 04:35 PM   #27
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Thanks for checking out my tank journals! I bought the driftwood online through a UK based seller (where I live). It's redmoor root, and the seller had pictures of the individual pieces so you could buy a specific one rather than just saying "I want a large one". It would be really expensive to ship to australia I'd imagine and probably completely unecessary. I'm sure there's some australia based sellers that do a similar thing.
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My Tank - Low tech just under 50g
Fauna: penguin tetras, angelfish, german blue rams, otos etc.
Flora: Vallisneria, crypts, java fern and anubias nana
My 4g planted nano
Fauna: 3 amano shrimp
Flora: hairgrass, pgostemon helferi, staurogyne repens
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:33 AM   #28
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No prolem, I really do love your tank, though! The Rams are gorgeous and I love the layering of plants - so natural but still organized and just lovely. And the Nano is just too cute, I love love love shrimp. And both your tanks are so cleeeaaan!

Hahaha yeah, I found an Aussie guy on Ebay, selling some kind of Golden Vine pieces, some don't look too bad. I could try asking what my LSF can order in, but it would probably mostly by the Malaysian log type stuff.

What's Golden vine like? the postage is reasonable and atm all I have is three tiny peices, which was all my LSF had.
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Old 12-07-2012, 02:52 AM   #29
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Sorry for being a bit late on this but if discus don't work out for whatever reason there's always Angelfish that I find to be a nice alternative
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Old 12-07-2012, 04:29 AM   #30
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That's fine, thanks for the input! I could go with Angels, though I've never been entirely that fond of them... I also think because I love love love the golden and blue rams, the higher temp they want goes well with the Discus.



However I'm having a problem at the moment. A few of the Harlequins appear unable to keep themselves upright... While the group chills that turn upside down in the water, and then they correct themselves and swim across the tank. Is this a symptom of whitespot or have I another issue to consider?

It's really disappointing, as I have no clue how to help them. One of them seemed to give up and was floating arround the tank, I netted him and confined him but he doens't look well. I was about to do a water change, should I still do this? Or will it add more stress?

Could the raised temp (30 degrees Celsius) be the cause of this behavior?

Edit: The worst one just died =/ Not a happy welcome back to freshwater fish keeping.

Last edited by Perchance; 12-07-2012 at 04:38 AM.. Reason: details
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