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Old 11-19-2012, 03:36 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Trail_Mix View Post
... but I just like toying around with these ideas in my head,....
It's fine to toy around with the ideas in your head...just becareful about listening to the voices in there.

Last edited by DogFish; 11-19-2012 at 03:54 AM.. Reason: sp
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:09 AM   #17
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I've used both. I will never use AS again. If you have a full foreground, and aren't looking to keep a sand cap sparkling clean as it will all be covered up by plants anyhow, than MTS is as good as AS, if not better. And with Frank's "Batch II," it can be way better than AS, in terms of growth, health, and color. I got nice results from AS, too, but it is pricey, and if you don't like the dark color, you will have to cap it anyhow.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:17 AM   #18
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Heres my $.02 worth: MTS isn't a defined product. We can use ordinary dirt, which can vary greatly from location to location. We can add varying amounts of clay from none to lots. We can add potash and dolomite, or not add it. We can use manufactured "topsoil" or nature's topsoil, or other soil. We can do a thorough job of mineralizing it, or a half way job. The result can still be called MTS.

ADA Aquasoil may not be 100% standardized either, but I would bet that it is much more standard than MTS.

I don't think that is an argument for or against either one, but it is a difference. If I could afford it I would use Aquasoil. I can't, so I have used MTS, made from more than one source of soil. To me the low price, near zero $, is the primary virtue of MTS.
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:21 AM   #19
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It's fine to toy around with the ideas in your head...just becareful about listening to the voices in there.
But... the voices... they tell me what to do!

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I've used both. I will never use AS again. If you have a full foreground, and aren't looking to keep a sand cap sparkling clean as it will all be covered up by plants anyhow, than MTS is as good as AS, if not better. And with Frank's "Batch II," it can be way better than AS, in terms of growth, health, and color. I got nice results from AS, too, but it is pricey, and if you don't like the dark color, you will have to cap it anyhow.
Cool, thanks for the input. Where can I find Frank's "Batch II" ? Sorry, I've been on like ten different forums over the last few days and am all spun out lol.

Anyway, I'm really leaning towards trying MTS since I've used AS before, and there's just something intriguing about it. However, if I am going to be planting a lot of microsorums, crypts, and bucepalandras for instance, I know the crypts will dig into the MTS well, but will the roots from the java ferns and buces reach? Cause I am planning on attacing the buces to small lava rocks or pieces of driftwood, and I'm not sure yet about the microsorums. What about mosses? They wouldn't have any direct contact with the MTS, but would the MTS still put more nutrients in the water column that the mosses could absorb? Sorry, I'm not really an expert on the chemistry behind all this, that being said, my understanding is that the nutrients from MTS are trapped below the sand and slowly released over a looooooooong time right?
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:29 AM   #20
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Moss, buces, ferns will get all their nutrients from fish waste, while all your root plant should get all their nutrients from MTS.

Think... Think... Think...

top soil is cheap to buy, MTS is easy to make... Since you have so many tank laying around... POP one OPEN and MTS that TANK. TEST DRIVE THAT THING...

Any more QUESTION SIR?
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Old 11-19-2012, 05:43 AM   #21
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I guess my last quetsion would be what plants you suggest to use in a MTS based tank, mostly stem plants and other plants you bury in the substrate I assume right?
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:00 PM   #22
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....Cool, thanks for the input. Where can I find Frank's "Batch II" ? Sorry, I've been on like ten different forums over the last few days and am all spun out lol....
Yes, you are wasting time looking for that online. I know that Dude, he got burnt out selling stuff online, he went underground, Off the Grid. He only makes up batches for himself and good friends. My man does build some Primo Dirt. He's into Crypts these days and his dirt really makes them POP.

MTS is kinda like Mirco Brew Beer it can 'brewed' in any flavor to suit your needs.

Last edited by DogFish; 11-19-2012 at 04:34 PM.. Reason: Added Beer talk
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:03 AM   #23
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Yes, you are wasting time looking for that online. I know that Dude, he got burnt out selling stuff online, he went underground, Off the Grid. He only makes up batches for himself and good friends. My man does build some Primo Dirt. He's into Crypts these days and his dirt really makes them POP.

MTS is kinda like Mirco Brew Beer it can 'brewed' in any flavor to suit your needs.
Hey sorry, I'm confused, when you say "My man does build some Primo Dirt," are you referring to Frank still? I would love something that is crypt friendly, but I'm starting to think my mind is getting too consumed by the substrate. How would you make a batch of MTS that is specially suited for crypts?
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:46 AM   #24
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Any decent mix with the standard goodies for plants will be good for crypts. They grow great for me with organic potting soils right out of the bag--submerged and emergant.
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Old 11-20-2012, 01:49 AM   #25
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Hey sorry, I'm confused, when you say "My man does build some Primo Dirt," are you referring to Frank still? I would love something that is crypt friendly, but I'm starting to think my mind is getting too consumed by the substrate. How would you make a batch of MTS that is specially suited for crypts?
Yes, that's the Dude. That's why I quoted you Man.

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...How would you make a batch of MTS that is specially suited for crypts?
You'd need to talk to that Frank guy. Don't know if he'll tell you what in it, It's like family recipe kinda thing. I heard when you go to his house you need a secret knock or he won't answer the door.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUPNe...eature=related
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:39 AM   #26
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Here's an example of the color that I got on my Hygro corymbosa within two weeks of planting it into Frank's Batch II:



I never got that type of coloration before using AS, and I've used it in the same set up a few years ago. Frank's stuff works well!

Trail Mix--I got the last batch before he went underground. Rumor is that he's working on a formulation for Batch III, but he's a bit crazy. I don't know his name. Unless you are friends with him, he prefers to work anonymously. I was able to obtain several boxes of his MTS through a contact. But, I've been told (so I don't know this first-hand) that he is one of those "so smart he's almost crazy" types.

If you can get your hands on some, his MTS is the way to go. It could be challenging to track him down....not sure he likes to be contacted.
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:51 AM   #27
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Haha, that's awesome, it's like one of those urban legends! Sounds like he's the "mad scientist" type, I would love to get some of his stuff, but tracking him down sounds like a loooong process lol.

Thanks for the info, and your hygro looks great by the way, so jealous!
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Old 11-20-2012, 02:53 AM   #28
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Wait a minute... I think I might know who he is!! Or atleast I think I know somebody who knows him, they said he was hard to track to and works on all these inovative techniques for fish keeping... never mentioned anything about MTS, but from their description, it must be the same Frank!
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:33 AM   #29
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Hmmm...



Perhaps.
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Old 11-20-2012, 03:50 AM   #30
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Hmmm...



Perhaps.
Quit toying with the poor guy and tell him who the real "Frank" is.
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