How much Light before co2 is needed ?

[Gabez]

High Guys , this is my first post here but I have read your posts a lot , You have all helped me immensely already ( Big shout out to Hoppy ), and I can't thank you enough for sharing your knowledge. I've kept countless tanks in my life so know the basics but am new to the planted scene . I am setting up a standard 36x24x18 65g with a big eheim canister (180g rated ) and the Odyssea 36" T5 HO Trio Aquarium Light Fixture w/ Built-in Digital Timer + 3 LED 3x39W , my main question is do I need co2 with this light as hoppy says they act like NO although they say HO , I will post my list of plants i intend to get if that will help, again thanks so much for your help.

[Gabez]

any one have any experience with these lights ?

[@marko@]

nope.

but i can tell you that CO2 will not hurt your plant growth even if the tank is low light. CO2 only ever helps plants and helps fight algae issues.

[Gabez]

thanks marko , I think I will go all out with co2 , i'll start off with the min and amp it up depending on plant and algae growth.

[pejerrey]

Originally Posted by Gabez

thanks marko , I think I will go all out with co2 , i'll start off with the min and amp it up depending on plant and algae growth.

Actually you should start the other way around. That way you won't create an opportunity for algae.

Make sure the tank is heavily planted and has plenty of nutrients to rule plant mass and nutrient deficiency out and be able to only be working with co2 factor assuming the light is a constant.

You can also shorten the photoperiod to diminish the co2 demand.

Whatever you do, make a single change and observe for about two weeks to see how did that affect the tank.

[Gabez]

Sounds like good logic , I'm gonna get a 5lb tank with all the gizmos , how many bubbles per sec should I start with as I plan on adding fish as well , something like 20 cpd , 20 cardinals , 20 Sundadanio axelrodi 'blue' and tons of red cherry shrimp maybe some killifish if i can find the best colour morphs

[pejerrey]

If I was you, I will give myself 2 months before adding any livestock to the tank.

I would have the lights, tank, stand, substrate, rocks, ferts, co2 and filters ready before filling up the tank.

When you have all of this ready start the by laying out the substrate and rocks, order the plants and while the plants get there you can move the hardscape around.

Plants arrived. Fill up the tank a tiny bit over the substrate and plant it. Flood the tank using a spray or laying plastic wrap in top so you don't get it all destroyed. Slow, like Amano.

Make sure your filter(s) are primed.

Start the filters, set your light and co2 at maximum and follow instructions for a fish less cycle with ammonia. If you use Ada soil, you may just let the soil leach it, not sure.

During the first month, you can rescape and play around with it without worrying about critters, get your parameters rigth and after 30 days you can start testing for ammonia and no2 to see if it's cycled. Then slowly start adding critters, although I wouldn't use dwarf shrimp with fish, amanos are better.

I haven't done it exactly like this but next time I will definitively do it like I just described.


Just a huge suggestion! Lol!

[Gabez]

thanks alot , its been cycling with my algae crew for 2 months now , I have soil peat and flourite about an inch or two in the bottom with eco complete on top,is this a good subsrate choice ? I will get the t5ho light this weekend but ill wait for the plants and co2 before i use it , and def get that right before I add fish , thanks again

[@marko@]

Originally Posted by pejerrey

Actually you should start the other way around. That way you won't create an opportunity for algae.

Make sure the tank is heavily planted and has plenty of nutrients to rule plant mass and nutrient deficiency out and be able to only be working with co2 factor assuming the light is a constant.

You can also shorten the photoperiod to diminish the co2 demand.

Whatever you do, make a single change and observe for about two weeks to see how did that affect the tank.

+1 on this.

im currently setting up my 20 gal, and i keep the CO2 sky high (you can check out my thread, link in my sig, to see just how much it is based on the pearling on the plants). also dosing EI, and have a nutrient heavy substrate, and doing daily WCs. so far no sign of algae, but already there is visible plant growth. once the tank has cycled and the plants have grown in to a satisfactory level, then i will start to slowly decrease the CO2. then add livestock. and then after a week in the tank, start slowly increasing the CO2 again (giving the livestock time to adapt to it) but not to as high as it is now.

Originally Posted by Gabez

thanks alot , its been cycling with my algae crew for 2 months now , I have soil peat and flourite about an inch or two in the bottom with eco complete on top,is this a good subsrate choice ? I will get the t5ho light this weekend but ill wait for the plants and co2 before i use it , and def get that right before I add fish , thanks again

im not crazy about eco complete. it buffers the water to make it harder, while a lot of plants preffer softer water (erios and toninas for instance cant handle hard water at all); however the peat should counteract this without a problem. in terms of nutrients, flourite and eco complete are both pretty inert, but have a high CEC (cation exchange content), so they will absorb some nutrients from the water column, transporting them to the roots.
for stem plants, your substrate is just fine, as long as you fertilize the water column (EI dosing works wonders). for root feeders, id give em a root tab every once in a while (i like rootmedic tabs, but flourish brand are ok too, as are riparium supply's gro tabs).

[Gabez]

Great advice , I thought eco complete was inert , if it does make the water harder thats great for me , my tap water is very soft ( 1 degree kh and gh ) as measured by those crap all 5 in one test strips lol , my real master test kit coming in soon . In Bermuda we catch our own rainwater on our roofs and store it in underground tanks. I was gonna add some limestone rocks in the hopes it would raise my kh enough to keep the tank stable, do you think this would work

[@marko@]

Originally Posted by Gabez

Great advice , I thought eco complete was inert , if it does make the water harder thats great for me , my tap water is very soft ( 1 degree kh and gh ) as measured by those crap all 5 in one test strips lol , my real master test kit coming in soon . In Bermuda we catch our own rainwater on our roofs and store it in underground tanks. I was gonna add some limestone rocks in the hopes it would raise my kh enough to keep the tank stable, do you think this would work

1 gh and kh is good. i would like those values in my tanks. i keep softwater animals. bettas (particularly crowntails) like soft water, as do most shrimp, and tons of the other fish i have kept. plants too.
but i understand that other animals preffer moderate or hard water, so it all depends on what you want to keep.

eco complete will raise the gh as it has Ca and Mg in it. it will also raise kh (and thus ph), which means it must also have some carbonates.
if you want to raise your kh and ph, i dont advise using CaCO3 rocks. the rate of dissolution can be unsteady (i know, i tried it in one tank that had an undetectably low kh). plus the kh would start low, and then increase til the next water change.
a better idea might be to add baking soda (NaHCO3) or a the finely powdered kalk used for reef tanks (CaCO3 -- WILL ALSO RAISE GH) to your water when filling and doing water changes. based on how much you put, you control exactly what the kh is, and with no fluctuations.
peat

[pejerrey]

Shrimp need above 4 GH minimum, most people keep it above 6. Otherwise they can't molt right.

[@marko@]

thats interesting.
i never kept higher end shrimp. my RCS colony was exploding at a gh of 2-3 (sometimes reads 2 sometimes 3), but they are hardy as hell, and 3 of them in a different tank even survived a CuSO4 treatement during a velvet outbreak in the fish.
good to know. if i get cardinia sp ill keep the gh at 4.

by the way, gabez, which species of fauna do you plan on keeping?

[Gabez]

thanks again , I plan on keeping soft water fish as well , killis , cardinals , and dif microrasboras , I have rcs , ghost shrimp , amano shrimp and otos in now and they seem fine, my real test kit coming soon so i can see my real parameters

[Gabez]

Heres the order I sent out today

Red tiger lotus
HC, Hemianthus callitrichoides
Myriophyllum mattogrssense
water wisteria
ludwigia repens
contorsionist val
orchid lily
anubias barteri coffeefolia , petite and nana
green gecko cryps
hydrothrix gardneri

cant wait