Ich Detected Early
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Fish


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-02-2012, 02:49 PM   #1
puopg
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (14/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 760
Default

Ich Detected Early


Hey Guys,
Really thanks to the community for helping me get my first planted tank setup so far. I had a question since i just introduced fish into my tank and this morning i can see on 2 fish, one white dot on them. I believe this is ICH and i was wondering what the best treatment is for this stage of ICH. I do not have a second heater to spare to a hospital tank and since i have plants, i dont want to throw in random chemicals or high salt that can damage them. Any suggestions? Thanks!
puopg is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 10-02-2012, 03:03 PM   #2
pandamonium
Wannabe Guru
 
pandamonium's Avatar
 
PTrader: (27/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,078
Default

For Ich, I have used raised temperatures and Coppersafe by Mardel. In the form that you see, the ich cannot be killed because it is actually covered by the fish's flesh. This form is burrowed essentially. The only time that you can kill it is when it is free swimming (after the parasite drops off and hatches). Adding heat speeds up the life cycle of ich. In the lower temps like 60 degrees, the life cycle takes more than a week or 2 I believe. At temps of 84 and up, the life cycle takes 4 days. At 89, I believe ich can no longer survive or reproduce.
When I found ich in my tank, I up'ed my temperature to 86 for 2 weeks. I also dosed coppersafe which is relatively mild (unless you have invertebrates I think, which I didn't) and left it like that for 2 weeks. My catfish also made it through ok. Afterwards, I let the temp naturally cool and then do a water change (50%). That rid me of ich and I only lost the 1 fish that had the ich to start with. Everyone else survived.
Usually heat will do the trick though Not sure what you can do if you don't have a heater, and cannot use salt or chemicals. Maybe just remove fish since ich cannot survive without a host.
pandamonium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 04:28 PM   #3
puopg
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (14/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 760
Default

So, just to clarify, if i quarantine the fish with visible ich right now, are there no water borne ich? Otherwise i need to treat the tank to completely remove it.
puopg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 04:56 PM   #4
shrimpedout
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Wa
Posts: 216
Default

86 is the magic number. Raise it slowly and eventually you'll have no more.

---
Get shrimped out!
shrimpedout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 05:10 PM   #5
sphack
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Firestone, Colorado
Posts: 197
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by puopg View Post
So, just to clarify, if i quarantine the fish with visible ich right now, are there no water borne ich? Otherwise i need to treat the tank to completely remove it.
With Ich you need to treat the entire tank.

Here is an excellent write up:
http://rainbow-fish.org/forums/viewt...?p=22113#22113
__________________
[75g high tech -- 20g shrimp jungle -- 130g bow-front build WIP ]
sphack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 05:34 PM   #6
puopg
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (14/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 760
Default

So i have read mixed reviews about this Kordon: Ich Attack. Anyone that has had success, did you treat Ich when you caught it early on? how did it affect your plants or substrate? Thanks
puopg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 10:17 PM   #7
pandamonium
Wannabe Guru
 
pandamonium's Avatar
 
PTrader: (27/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,078
Default

If you quarantine the fish, the Ich in the tank will eventually die yes. By the time you see ich, it is usually a bit further in the life stage so if you remove fish, then the ich in the tank will eventually die. The fish though will still have it in your quarantine tank/bucket so best is probably just treat the tank.
I used Coppersafe off a recommendation from another forum member since I have honeycomb catfish which are sensitive to salt as well as copper meds. This medicine worked great for them though. No plants died and the catfish were good to go. I have heard Kordon is good as well
pandamonium is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-02-2012, 11:26 PM   #8
bud29
Planted Member
 
bud29's Avatar
 
PTrader: (31/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Kansas
Posts: 293
Default

It is good you caught it early!

I think I caught my ich outbreak a bit too late, but I have not yet lost any fish. Currently I am just treating with jungle ick guard and aquarium salt, but I will be getting a heater tomorrow and then I will stop using the ick guard and use heat instead. Be cautious when using meds with high temperatures. Many ich meds lower the amount of oxygen in the water, and raising the heat also reduces oxygen. This can be a serious problem, because ich makes it hard for fish to breathe in the first place. Regardless of whether or not you use meds with heat or just heat, you need to lower the water level in your tank so your filter splashes and makes bubbles, or get an air stone. You need your tank to be well oxygenated. As for salt, if you have plants in your aquarium, I would start out with a dose of 1 teaspoon per 10 gallons and then slowly increase from there, to make sure your plants can handle it. You eventually want your salt to be at a level of 1 tablespoon per 5 gallons. Since ick guard requires a daily water change, I do a 50% water change every day and then increase the salt amount. I am on schedule to reach the desired amount of salt in 6 days.

Hope this helps, and good luck!
bud29 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2012, 05:58 PM   #9
puopg
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (14/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 760
Default

UPDATE: Got a hospital tank up and running with my cardinal tetras who are infected. Lost 1 this morning so pretty sad. I gotta say, i've learned a lot about ich in this past 2 weeks and know that heat is the most natural way of curing ich. I chose to go this route as i don't want to introduce chemicals into my system. But this strain I am battling is a real trooper. I am at 88 F and still after 4 days i see a ton of ich on the fish. We will see if they can survive, but the looks of it are tellin me, those fish are gonna get jettison'd soon
puopg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 06:50 AM   #10
puopg
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
PTrader: (14/100%)
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 760
Default

Well pretty sad, but man this ich was a nightmare. I lost all 5 cardinals. Sometimes i guess you just get unlucky. Definitely a learning process though. Will always quarantine fish from now on before introducing them into the real tank. Had i raised the temp in the main tank to 88, i'm sure my plants also would've died so i guess this could have been worse. also could have gotten some meds to help. since they were in the quarantine tank anyways. No fear of killing plants at that point.
puopg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-18-2012, 01:45 PM   #11
DogFish
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Gone
Posts: 5,991
Default

I used to be quiet the "Mad Scientist" going after Ich. These days I try to stay are GREEN as I can. I use Kordon's Ich Attack http://www.novalek.com/kordon/ich_attack/index.htm in Q-Tank.

If I see a fish attempting to scratch itself in my tank's I run it in there as well.

For Q-Tanks I run 150% dose 2Xs a day for 3 days, them 50% water change, them 100% dose 1X a day for three days them 50% water change, then 1/2 dose for a week w/ 25% water changes. In the q-tank the water is @ 80degees

Somethimes the fish is too far gone.

In my display tanks I leave the water temp @ the normal temp. I don't want to punish the plants. Just use the full dose daily for 7days, with 50% water changes on days 3 and 6.

Whatever you use it's important to run for a week to get the free swimming Ich before it gets your fish. Big W/C flush them out of the tank.

Last edited by DogFish; 10-19-2012 at 04:22 AM.. Reason: sp.
DogFish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 04:19 AM   #12
RedseaReefer
Planted Member
 
RedseaReefer's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Cincinnati, Oh
Posts: 193
Send a message via Skype™ to RedseaReefer
Default

first of all a big +1 to ich attack; it saved my one of my four clown loaches in my opinion.

Some time ago i had a bout of ich in my 75g planted community tank that also included 4 decent sized($35ea) clown loaches and a 5-6' red tail shark. I had already dealt with it awhile before that and tried some kind of "no-ich" malachite green med that actually killed a pleco and basically a whole tank of livebearing fish..

So this time.. i got ich attack! says right on the bottle safe for plants and inverts ect reef/salt and fresh safe too. so i basicly followed the directions including:

-removing the carbon from my filters
-dropping the water line to add splashing and an airstone
-as well as jacking the heat up past 82 atleast
- i used about a tbs per gallon

but it also says that no WC is needed during the treatment but atleast a 20% (id do probably 50) after the treatment. Be prepared though you might have to WC just for water quality bcz of no carbon. and it should take about 3-4weeks and the ich will be gone. like it says though treat 3-4days after the last spot is gone.

I treated my main tank with a betta, plants, fish, decor, and alot of ghost shrimp and had no deaths besides the 3/4 loaches (which i think was actually caused by a stupid hollow root decoration that one got stuck in, died, and ruined water quality opening the others up to infection) and i often recommend this product to anyone with a fresh planted tank having issues with this pesky little white spot parasite.

if you do get some ich attack id just treat mostly as directed its better in my oppinion that most of the other meds and treatments like salts which plecos and other small scaled/scaless fish hate.

But I wish the best of luck to you and your poor fish! i actually just lost a Three spot domino in my salt tank to ich just two days ago so i feel for ya but i read somewhere once that what makes you a good fishkeeper isnt what happens to you but what you do to overcome it

Good Luck!
RedseaReefer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2012, 05:04 AM   #13
Diana
Planted Tank Guru
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Contra Costa CA
Posts: 7,710
Default

If you are simply using heat, or salt and heat, then add a UV sterilizer.

If you are using any dye based meds, do not use Amquel or Amquel Plus dechlor. Says so right on the label.

Do not use a UV sterilizer with any treatment other than salt and heat.

Lots of vacuuming can remove a lot of the breeding Ich organisms. Mostly they are on the floor of the tank, so emphasize cleaning the substrate. Re-dose meds to keep the levels in the therapeutic range.

You can dose some meds a bit differently for sensitive fish. Instead of adding the full dose the the tank once a day, you might be able to add half the dose in the AM and half in the PM. This way the maximum dose is not as high, perhaps less stressful to the fish.

Some meds are light sensitive. Read the label, and turn off the tank light if needed. This is not great for the plants, though. If you have a lot of floating plants I think that is a lot of shade, and maybe OK not to turn off the light.
Diana is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
early, ich, planted

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012