ShrimpZoo's 30gal CRS/CBS/Golden Breeding Tank
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Old 08-02-2012, 06:58 AM   #1
shrimpzoo
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ShrimpZoo's 30gal CRS/CBS/Golden Breeding Tank






================================================== ===============================================

Like the title says, I'm going to start a 30gal CRS breeding tank and I'm going to start designing it tomorrow.

I've got 2 bags of "NETLEA Crystal Shrimp Soil (9L)" that will be delivered to my house, so that means the fun official starts tomorrow.

I've already got a basic layout planned in my brain and here is what I'm thinking:



Blue Area: Will be where I'll have my "Breeding Tubes". They will be "Breeding Tubes" that will consist of Cholla Wood. I've ordered 5 sets from NeoShrimp and you can see them at - http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=184932

I'll be attaching some Java Ferns on top of them as a roof lol .

Red Area: This will be where I'll be placing my driftwood (re-using the one in my current tank). You can check out the piece using the link in my forum signature. I will be wrapping a ton of Java Moss around this piece of wood.

Pink Scribble: That will be where I'll have a feeding dish. The feeding dish is just a simple sushi soy dish holder. http://www.mysushiset.com/soy-sauce-...now-white.html

Green Boxes (2): Will be where I place 2 separate filters. They will most likely be Seapora Sponge Filters -

http://www.bigalspets.ca/fish/filter...ilter-136.html

They'll be run by a Marina Air Pump that has a duo air output line:

http://www.hydroshop.ca/english/hage...-air-pump.html

Random Yellow Markings: Marimo Balls

=============================================

That's all for the layout of the tank. What I want feedback on is the following (but feel free to comment on my set up) FEEL FREE TO SKIM THROUGH (I blab a LOT):

#1. Filtration - Is having 2 giant sponge filters crazy? or practical? Will there be an issue with flow/current for the CRS? I want to keep water clean but I don't want to create a problem doing so. Because as I've heard countless times, keeping it simple is best and I hope I'm not overdoing it.

#2. Substrate will lose its buffering capabilities after 12 months from what I've read @ http://www.shrimpkeeping.com/substrate.html

How do you guys efficiently+effectively change your substrate? This is something I'm going to have to do in the future so I'm curious to how it is done. Do you just scoop up all your shrimp and dump the substrate and put in a new one? and does that mean you have to re-cycle the tank?

#3. Since this is a breeding tank and I want to keep nitrates as low as possible, would having duckweed as a floater be a smart move? My only plants will be (excluding duckweed) are:

- Marimo Ball / Java Moss / Java Fern

#4. MTS, yes or no. The only reason why I would WANT them in there is because they mix around the substrate and will act as a clean up crew if food gets into the substrate where the shrimp cannot reach it. Is there ANY negatives other than disliking them (some people just hate em because they are ugly)? Besides, won't they help speed up the tank's cycling process?

p.s: planning on having the substrate about 3" in depth (should be fine I'm assuming)

#5. Water water water, is the main reason that CRS keepers use RO water because if they use tapwater for a WC it'll cause a shift in paramaters and shock the CRS to death? IF so, I will be safe using tap water to aqua-scape I'm assuming. I fail to see why I would fill 30 gallons with RO water if I'm not going to stock up with CRS anytime soon lol. So if it is just an issue with parameters then I should be safe (: please confirm if my assumption is correct. I will probably get RO water from Loblaws or Home Depot or even install one in the basement sink while the tank is cycling.

#6. Here is a list of the food I currently have, are they good enough for CRS (diet-wise)?

- TetraVeggie Algae Wafers Xtreme
Crude Protein (min.) 30.0%, Crude Fat (min.) 6.0%, Crude Fiber (min.) 5.0%, Moisture (max.) 9.0%, Phosphorus (min.) 0.8%, Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) (min.) 100 mg/kg.

- Hikari Algae WAfers
Crude Protein Crude Fat Crude Fiber Moisture Crude Ash Phosphorus min. 33% min. 4.0% max. 3.0% max. 10% max. 17% min. 0.8%
- Indian Almond Leaves + Blanched Cucumber ( N/A Analysis)

- Hikari Micro Pellets
Crude Protein Crude Fat Crude Fiber Moisture Crude Ash min. 42% min. 4% max. 3% max. 10% max. 12%
- Hikari Shrimp Cuisine
Crude Protein Crude Fat Crude Fiber Moisture Crude Ash Phosphorus min. 35% min. 9.0% max. 6.0% max. 10% max. 14% min.0.8%
- Fluval Shrimp Granules

Crude Protein 37% min
Crude Fat 5% min
Crude Fiber 4% max
Moisture 8% max
Ash 10% max
Calcium 1.8% min
Phosphorus 1% min
Iodine 0.0065% min
Vitamin A 10,000 IU/lb min
Ascorbic Acid
(Vitamin C) 350 mg/lb min
Vitamin E 50 IU/lb min

My plan is feeding them once every other day.

#7. I'm planning on starting off with 10-15 CRS. Is that a good number to start a breeding tank or would you recommend more?

I suppose that's most of what I wanted to say lol... believe it or not this isn't all that I have on my mind atm. I guess having a new tank and getting my substrate tomorrow is making me too excited.

Anyways, thanks for reading and any feedback is appreciated as always.

Last edited by shrimpzoo; 05-24-2013 at 06:58 PM.. Reason: finished product posted
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Old 08-02-2012, 12:52 PM   #2
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Not sure about the hikari food, both the micro pellets and shrimp cuisine contain copper sulfate which from my understanding is harmful to shrimp. On the topic of the sponge filters, I really don't think you'll over do it just due to the way the outputs work on them and the fact that they will give a great feeding ground for the shrimps. One thing that id suggest is a heater in case it gets very cold in your room at night or if you have temperature shifts. CRS do like cold water but they don't like temperature shifts and in my unlucky experience they can go into shock if the temp varies too much. Finally Id suggest giant duckweed or frogbit but if you cant get either then normal duckweed is fine. I find the shrimp love to swim upside down and hang onto it feeding on anything yummy and it does a great job of filtering the water. It also is great due to its ability to give the water some cover and seems to encourage the shrimp to come out more. If your really serious about breeding id suggest fresh organic veggies and a mineral stone for the shrimp. If this is your first time with CRS be prepared for deaths and trial and error. CRS are extremely fragile especially if your ordering them and in my experience are troublesome to get adapted to new environments. Hope I haven't discouraged you and good luck.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:41 PM   #3
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Hikari Shrimp Cuisine contains copper sulfate in very small amounts. Copper sulfate helps with blood circulation so is benificial. There is a difference between copper and copper sulfate so it should be fine. Hikari Shrimp Cuisine is the staple I've been feeding my bees and haven't notice any ill effects. It doesn't make much sense that a major distributor of premium aquarium foods that has done extensive research on their products, would put something in their shrimp food that would harm or killyour shrimp. Correct me if I'm wrong. But please provide the evidence if doing so.
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Old 08-02-2012, 01:48 PM   #4
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Regarding scaping: i would swap the cholla wood and sponge filter locations on the left side of the tank so that the airlines dont have to be run towards the front of the tank. try to keep the tall things in the rear of the tank as not to obstruct view.



=============================================

#1. Filtration - Having biological filtration is great but so is mechanical filtration which you have none as it stands. adding an HOB is simple, cheap, and effective. If you want to step up, consider a canister

#2. Substrate: swapping out substrate can be done in phases halves, thirds or quarters for less impact. take out say a 1/4 of the old substrate, lay down a piece of plastic bag to demarcate the old substrate, then dump the new in the tank. Wait a week and repeat with another 1/4 section of the tank until all the substrate is replaced.

If you have buffering substrate which may leech ammonia or nitrates, its best to start soaking it in a bucket weeks prior to adding to the tank. just add an airstone in the bucket to keep the water circulating and perform the steps outlined above.

#3. Since this is a breeding Shrimp tank, you want to keep nitrates as low as possible. Duckweed is not recommended for most aquaria due to its invasive attributes. Large floaters (amazon frogbit & water lettuce) and fast growing plants are recommended. I have large duckweed which is also very pretty since its bottom leaves are red and are not so messy to deal with than its smaller cousin

Marimo Ball / Java Moss / Java Fern have more asthetic value over their nitrate absorption merits. Mosses have the added benefit of increased surface area which encourages biofilm buildup to supplement their diet. Floaters provide safe cover for shrimp and encourages them to venture to all levels of the tank rather than staying at the bottom.

#4. MTS and ramshorns are staples for many shrimpkeepers as they work on algae which shrimp have no appetite for. The strong dislike for them stems from owners overfeeding their tanks which encourage their populations to increase exponentially. snails are also great for helping the tank cycle as well as tell whether there is enough calcium available in the tank. Sort of like a canary in a mine shaft.

3" of substrate is fine. Should somewhat prolong the life of the substrate overall.

#5. Water water water, is the main reason that CRS keepers use RO water because if they use tapwater for a WC it'll cause a shift in paramaters and shock the CRS to death? R/O is used because the local tap water does not provide the necessary water parameters to keep Caridinas or are too dirty for even human consumption. If your tap contains heavy metals or other unhealthy things, you might want to consider using R/o from the start. Failing to do this, you will have a heck of a time dealing with random deaths over the course of the following months after you placed your CRS into the tank. just because you do a 100% water change prior to putting livestock in the tank doesnt mean you completely remove the toxins that were left when you used raw tap water to cycle your tank. Ulitmately its your choice, effort, time, money and your kharma.

#6. Shrimp food : they are bottom feeders and would happily eat their dead tankmates. The also are invertebrates so a good balance of calcium enriched foods, vegetable matter and a sparce feeding of protein should be fine. use the Hikari shrimp cuisine sparingly, maybe once a week.

#7. Starting population. 10 is a good number. getting more from different sources would be even better due to the genetic diversity. getting 5 + 5+ 5 from three different sources would be even better! In breeding happens over time so stating off with shrimp that are strangers to each other would be better if that were an option.

If you havent already fallen inlove with these colorful little guys, you will. they are peaceful, fun to watch, and always hungry. Try to search and read more yourself here and on other sources online. it would only help you decide what works best for you. Starting with a large tank is already a step in the right direction.

Consider getting some stargrass and other more exotic genus of mosses. I have a tank of only Java which has grown really beautifully while i have other tanks with 3 kinds all looking quite different from one another.

Good luck and have fun!
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:10 PM   #5
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I don't have much input because I agree with most, I'm subscribing to follow your progress tho. Good luck!
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Old 08-02-2012, 02:32 PM   #6
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Definitely swap the sponge and cholla wood as suggested by acitydweller. Shrimps love cholla wood, this way you can observe them close to the front of the tank.

Other random thoughts,
- At least add a HOB.
- You can definitely use GTA tap water to fill the tank initially. Use RO afterward if fine. Even with our PH7.8 tap, it should drops to 5.1 - 5.3 in a few hours, thanks to the substrate. PH will slowly go up to like 5.8 in 2 months.
- Wait for at least 6 weeks before adding shrimps, with just two sponge filter it will take a long long time to cycle. I didn't add shrimps to my first Netlea tank until 3 months later, but you don't need that long for shrimps to survive.
- 10 - 15 CRS aren't a lot in a 30G, I would go for like 20 to 30. But you can start with 10 - 15 and if they are stable and start breeding then you are fine.
- Food-wise, you have a good selection. I'd suggest to also feed them blanched veggies of your choice.
- You will want some baby food, they aren't just for babies, adults like it too.

PS: while java moss is popular, I'd add other types such as phoenix or peacock or Christmas. They look better than java moss especially when you don't have good lighting and proper ferts.

Last edited by randyl; 08-02-2012 at 02:50 PM.. Reason: PS
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Old 08-02-2012, 07:37 PM   #7
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here is the picture of the tank that I will be working on I've been cleaning it down and scrubbing it hardcore since my friend dropped it off at my place for free (: oh man was it dirty... even the rack was rusting. I'm happy that I made it decent looking.

From reading all of your posts (thanks again), I'll look into a HOB filter to get (I suppose having mechanical filtration couldn't hurt at all and would benefit the water quality). I'm going to have to make it CRS baby proof though (I'm going to assume that covering it with a panty hose + covering the intake with a sponge is the way to go).

Does anyone have any HOB filter brand they would recommend?

and will I really require baby shrimp food? Isn't biofilm and the food I'll feed the adults be enough?

and although I do have water lettuce, I feel that the duckweed is favorable in my case because they require less care (practically none at all). The water lettuce in my current tank isn't thriving as much as I'd want it to, whereas duckweed will thrive regardless of practically anything.

and I'm not going to use any ferts in my tank. And although I would enjoy a variety of mosses, I feel like I should stick to what I know and have an abundance of lol. The Java moss thrives in my low lights and fertless tank.

What I'm going to do now is get me some black bristol board to cover the back of my tank and start throwing in the substrate as soon as it gets here and look out for any leaks (:

oh and lastly, I've taken note of the re-arrangement suggestion and now have it planned as:



Either having the cholla wood breeding tubes as diagonal or horizontal with the sponge filter in the back (:

I will be getting a master test kit in the future along with a thermometer and heater so until then I suppose
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Old 08-02-2012, 08:27 PM   #8
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I use several sized aquaclear HOB filters and find them to be flexible and reliable. for a 30 gallon, you can consider getting a AC50 rated for 200 gal/hr which would filter your entire tank 6 times each hour.

Ref Lnky: http://www.amazon.com/AquaClear-50-P...uaclear+filter

Generic fluval edge prefilter sponge - used to cover the intake of the Aquaclear filter.

Ref Lnky: http://www.amazon.com/Pre-Filter-Spo...uval+prefilter

If you want to save some $, use some stockings or an old net. Ziptie it to the intake tube.
Even though people have had success raising shrimplets without special foods, i personally recommend feeding baby specific shrimp food to increase their survival rate, moreso in an immature tank.

Regarding your dwarf water lettuce, you might have insufficient light. Duckweed will also tend to shrink and die when there isnt enough light...

Last tip for the day, the API master kit does not come with the GH/KH test. you'll have to get that separately. Its one of the necessary test kits you'll need for keeping caridinas.

Nice tank scaping...

Good luck.
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Old 08-03-2012, 04:37 AM   #9
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Alrighty guys, I've put the substrate into the tank. I shall fill it up with water tomorrow and perhaps transfer my driftwood and java moss into it. I'm praying to a higher power that there are NO unexpected leaks.

Pics:



my lovely bags of netlea soil.



me making the black background of my aquarium.



how the substrate looks in the tank (without water).
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:18 PM   #10
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Subscribed for your progress! And +1 to what acitydweller said !

If you do decide to go with a HOB, keep one sponge filter on the opposite side. So if you have the HOB on the left of the tank, have the sponge filter on the right. Overfiltrating is not a problem
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Old 08-03-2012, 02:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrimpaholic View Post
Hikari Shrimp Cuisine contains copper sulfate in very small amounts. Copper sulfate helps with blood circulation so is benificial. There is a difference between copper and copper sulfate so it should be fine. Hikari Shrimp Cuisine is the staple I've been feeding my bees and haven't notice any ill effects. It doesn't make much sense that a major distributor of premium aquarium foods that has done extensive research on their products, would put something in their shrimp food that would harm or killyour shrimp. Correct me if I'm wrong. But please provide the evidence if doing so.
I was not aware of this. I just read copper and I usually stay away from it with all of my inverts.
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:49 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diwu13 View Post
Subscribed for your progress! And +1 to what acitydweller said !

If you do decide to go with a HOB, keep one sponge filter on the opposite side. So if you have the HOB on the left of the tank, have the sponge filter on the right. Overfiltrating is not a problem
Does that mean I should switch to 1 sponge and 1 HOB instead of 2 sponge and 1 HOB ;o ?
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Old 08-03-2012, 06:29 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimpzoo View Post
Does that mean I should switch to 1 sponge and 1 HOB instead of 2 sponge and 1 HOB ;o ?
If you want 2 sponges you can go for it ! Just remember you'll already have a lot of filtration if you buy a AC30/50. It's up to you!
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:25 AM   #14
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I'm probably going to head out to Big Al's on Sunday and get all my goody goodies. I've filled the aquarium 4/5th and no leaks have occurred (awesome).

But damn has it gone really foggy lol hopefully most of it will clear out by Sunday so I can put in my driftwood and start cycling the tank a bit (using snails and the bacteria that remains on the DW and moss).

But hey, if it doesn't I can always use the brown foggy water as a test for my filters lol. In the meantime, I think I'm going to work on designing my peat filter or see if I can get an RO unit in my basement sink.

p.s: I'm wondering how I'm going to put the HOB filter on the roof of my aquarium, since this'll be my first time using one. I can't seem to visualize it lol.



Am I suppose to remove the plastic part or remove it entirely to make way for the HOB filter?

Last edited by shrimpzoo; 08-04-2012 at 06:38 AM.. Reason: picture
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Old 08-06-2012, 03:23 AM   #15
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Got my goody goodies from Big Al's.

Now the fun really begins.



I decided to stick to 1 HOB and 1 SPONGE filter, and I got 5 marimo balls. Time to filter the water and figure out my tap water + tank water parameters (: [I will post them after filtration is done]

Then may the fun stuff begin!
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