Lush Growth Without CO2, is it possible?
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > General Planted Tank Forums > Low Tech Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-25-2012, 02:36 AM   #1
Trickerie
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Trickerie's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 707
Send a message via Skype™ to Trickerie
Default

Lush Growth Without CO2, is it possible?


So,

Ive been contemplating a dwarf puffer tank, densely planted. However, I want to try it low tech with no CO2. Is it possible? All of my serious planted tanks are injected, so I want to try something different. Lights, low light? Ferts, NPK and micros at water change only? Active substrate? How about gas exchange, lots or little surface agitation?
Trickerie is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-25-2012, 03:26 AM   #2
pejerrey
Wannabe Guru
 
pejerrey's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 1,931
Default

Hello, yes it's possible. It all depends on the light. You can dose as you wish keeping in mind build up vs water changes. It's a slow metabolism so it won't need too much.

I can't post pics from the mobile version so I encourage to look at my 6gal nano:
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...d.php?t=169143

Lots of surface agitation WITHOUT splashing. 6hrs of light maximum.

I can give you more details if you want.



Hope this helps.
pejerrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 01:25 PM   #3
Trickerie
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Trickerie's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 707
Send a message via Skype™ to Trickerie
Default

Thank you! I'd like as many details as you can provide. I'm trying to research all that I can on a lush low tech setup. I'm planning this on a 20g L, so I'm also looking for suggestions on suitable equipment, especially a fixture
Trickerie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 01:42 PM   #4
Seattle_Aquarist
Planted Tank Guru
 
Seattle_Aquarist's Avatar
 
PTrader: (38/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,577
Default

Hi Trickerie,

Yes, growth is slower and less ferts are needed as is a good cleaning crew. This is my 10 gallon Apisto breeding setup (w/ 'loveshack') it has 2X10 watt screw-in CFL's.


BTW, stop at toojay's and have a corned beef sandwich for me!
__________________
Roy
45 Gallon Tall; 96 Watt AH Supply CF; 6700K; & 30 Gallon Long; 2X36 Watt AH Supply CF; Press. CO2; UGF; Heat Treated Montmorillonite Clay
Greater Seattle Aquarium Society (GSAS)


Last edited by Seattle_Aquarist; 07-25-2012 at 02:05 PM.. Reason: add info
Seattle_Aquarist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 01:59 PM   #5
jbrady33
Wannabe Guru
 
jbrady33's Avatar
 
PTrader: (14/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Mt Laurel, NJ
Posts: 1,581
Default

check out this thread
http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=99729
jbrady33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 02:25 PM   #6
pejerrey
Wannabe Guru
 
pejerrey's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 1,931
Default

Plant as heavy as possible, most plants will do ok.
With an active substrate you may be able to skip dosing.
Adjust the light distance/time to match the co2 provided by the atmosphere. Too much = algae and or deficiencies. Some plans need more than others.
Make sure there is plenty of surface agitation, you need to avoid surface scum. IME.
Low maintainance means very few inhabitants or just inverts and good filtration. IMO.

That is what I do. What I exactly do I that tank won't really apply to other tanks tho.
pejerrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 02:34 PM   #7
BBradbury
Wannabe Guru
 
BBradbury's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Greeley, CO
Posts: 1,428
Default Low Tech, Planted Tanks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickerie View Post
So,

Ive been contemplating a dwarf puffer tank, densely planted. However, I want to try it low tech with no CO2. Is it possible? All of my serious planted tanks are injected, so I want to try something different. Lights, low light? Ferts, NPK and micros at water change only? Active substrate? How about gas exchange, lots or little surface agitation?
Hello T...

I have heavily planted, low tech tanks and it's definitely possible to have healthy plants without the added "bells and whistles". All you need is a well stocked tank of non destructive, non plant gulping fish and a source of the "trace elements".

Lighting is pretty easy. You need a couple of 6500K, T5 bulbs or a little more than a watt of light per gallon of tank volume and you can grow quite a large number of low to moderate light plants.

I have larger tanks and emerse land plants in the tank as well as keeping the standard aquatic ones. My tanks are full of plants.

B
__________________
"Fear not my child, just change the tank water."
BBradbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 02:59 PM   #8
somewhatshocked
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (435/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 11,501
Default

Lighting is based on PAR, not watts per gallon. Watts per gallon is sorely outdated for a number of reasons. Click here for an explanation.

Your tank doesn't have to be well-stocked in order to grow plants, either.

As others have said, it's easy to get lush growth without CO2. I'm a fan of nutrient-rich substrates but if you can't get your hands on something like ADA Aquasoil or Azoo Plant Grower Bed, you can use root tabs. If you don't have high lighting and don't grow super-demanding plants, you may never have to dose anything in the water column.
somewhatshocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 03:15 PM   #9
Trickerie
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Trickerie's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 707
Send a message via Skype™ to Trickerie
Default

I'm thinking only 1 male and 3 female puffers for inhabitants. Lots and lots of plants. Other than that, maybe some shrimp of they aren't devoured by the puffers

And Toojays is awesome!! Had a cheesecake at a bday party they made a few weeks ago, in fact

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seattle_Aquarist View Post
Hi Trickerie,

Yes, growth is slower and less ferts are needed as is a good cleaning crew. This is my 10 gallon Apisto breeding setup (w/ 'loveshack') it has 2X10 watt screw-in CFL's.


BTW, stop at toojay's and have a corned beef sandwich for me!
Trickerie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 04:30 PM   #10
BBradbury
Wannabe Guru
 
BBradbury's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Greeley, CO
Posts: 1,428
Default The Old "Watts per Gallon" Rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by somewhatshocked View Post
Lighting is based on PAR, not watts per gallon. Watts per gallon is sorely outdated for a number of reasons. Click here for an explanation.

Your tank doesn't have to be well-stocked in order to grow plants, either.

As others have said, it's easy to get lush growth without CO2. I'm a fan of nutrient-rich substrates but if you can't get your hands on something like ADA Aquasoil or Azoo Plant Grower Bed, you can use root tabs. If you don't have high lighting and don't grow super-demanding plants, you may never have to dose anything in the water column.
Hello some...

I've heard the "Watts per Gallon" rule is outdated. But, so am I, I guess. I could never get a handle on the "PARs thing. Anyway, this rule, though a little old, can get you close to the target amount of watts needed to grow the majority of aquarium plants available that require up to moderate lighting.

I used it and just got a couple of T5, 28 watt bulbs in my 55 G tanks. Just plain, old pea sized gravel substrate. The fish provide the bulk nutrients and I dose a little liquid micro nutrient source once a week when I do a water change. As long as I avoid the "higher end" plants, the standard plants get all the nutrients needed.

Good post, thanks!

B
__________________
"Fear not my child, just change the tank water."
BBradbury is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 05:53 PM   #11
somewhatshocked
Obsessed? Maybe
 
somewhatshocked's Avatar
 
PTrader: (435/100%)
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 11,501
Default

Not trying to argue with you but no, the watts per gallon rule cannot get you close to a target amount of lighting.

It depends upon the depth of the tank, the power of the bulb, the kind of reflector you're using, whether it's an LED, a T5NO, T5HO, T8 Metal Halide, CFL, et al. 60 watts of T5 on a tank that's 10" deep is a lot different than 60 watts on a tank that's 20" deep.

Click the link I provided in my comment. Here it is again. It's a great, easy to understand resource about PAR and the non-rule of watts per gallon..
somewhatshocked is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 05:54 PM   #12
exv152
Wannabe Guru
 
exv152's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,388
Default

The PAR method is just too complicated and convoluted for the average joe aquarist. And I don't have $300-$400 lying around to invest in a meter that will get used less than a handful of times (usually when setting up a tank). And buying two meters to convert lux to par just seems too complicated. I'm old school and as scientifically accurate as that method may be, I need something more practical to calculate light intensity, something that can be calculated in my head at the store, or when surfing the internet. As flawed as watts per gallon is, I just go with that and adjust accordingly (adjust the height of the light, the amount of bulbs in use etc) based on how the plants reacte.

As for a low tech planted puffer tank is concerned, I would plant it very heavily because puffers are inquisitive type fish and need to have their line of sight diverted from their fellow tank mates to control aggression. Plant heavily and with low light plants, keeping the pH just above 7.
__________________
Eheim Pimp Club,# 496
25g 60-H iwagumi
125g high tech
7g cube
33g iwagumi cube
75g low tech angelfish tank
exv152 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 06:19 PM   #13
Seattle_Aquarist
Planted Tank Guru
 
Seattle_Aquarist's Avatar
 
PTrader: (38/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,577
Default

Hi All,

His question was about being able to grow plants without CO2; I don't think he was looking for a lighting debate.
__________________
Roy
45 Gallon Tall; 96 Watt AH Supply CF; 6700K; & 30 Gallon Long; 2X36 Watt AH Supply CF; Press. CO2; UGF; Heat Treated Montmorillonite Clay
Greater Seattle Aquarium Society (GSAS)

Seattle_Aquarist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 06:53 PM   #14
izabella87
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
izabella87's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: montreal,canada
Posts: 732
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trickerie View Post
So,

Ive been contemplating a dwarf puffer tank, densely planted. However, I want to try it low tech with no CO2. Is it possible? All of my serious planted tanks are injected, so I want to try something different. Lights, low light? Ferts, NPK and micros at water change only? Active substrate? How about gas exchange, lots or little surface agitation?
You've asked just the question i needed
~ let's avoid CO2 explosion and do it natural way!
Awwww puffers are sooo cute!!
__________________
Believe in the impossible because only a fraction of the things humans have accomplished was considered possible - IK
Youtube Channel http://www.youtube.com/user/Enshacra87
Instagram @ Enshacra87
izabella87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2012, 07:14 PM   #15
Trickerie
Planted Tank Enthusiast
 
Trickerie's Avatar
 
PTrader: (8/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: West Palm Beach, FL
Posts: 707
Send a message via Skype™ to Trickerie
Default

I've got non injected tanks, but none of them are meant to keep plants. Lighting is one thing, but this is more about techniques in keepin plants lush without co2
Trickerie is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:20 PM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012