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View Poll Results: pick away
co2 21 48.84%
no co2 14 32.56%
both 8 18.60%
Voters: 43. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-09-2012, 04:03 AM   #1
In.a.Box
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bba poll


If you are using co2 and having Bba problem click co2
If you are not using co2 and seeing Bba click no co2
Click both if your seeing co2 in both no co2/ co2 tank.

Before you pick one make sure to compare the Bba in each tank. Which tank has more Bba. If the one with co2 have more click co2.

This will allowed me to see/read the result and do future test.
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Old 07-09-2012, 07:26 PM   #2
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Bba is largely caused by flucuating c02 levels more than insufficient c02 levels.. so keep in mind people that have c02 generally have more of a consistency problem than not enoug. This has been my observation. I used to have almost stressed fauna for months on end with medium lighting and still got bba. Drop checker was beyond yellow it seemed.
Now with good surface agitation to keep gas exchange constant i get none. I do have to inject more to keep levels decent but they are far lower than before
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:13 PM   #3
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Bba is largely caused by flucuating c02 levels more than insufficient c02 levels..
I agree with this. Fluctuating CO2 is the key word.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:33 PM   #4
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My LFS has in in every tank with no CO2, it covers large sponge filters completely so it looks like a big black bush. But with constant water changes is a low tech or no tech tank fluctuating CO2 could also be the answer.
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Old 07-09-2012, 08:35 PM   #5
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What if you're using Co2 and there isnt a BBA Problem?
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Old 07-09-2012, 09:08 PM   #6
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i agree with this. Fluctuating co2 is the key word.
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Old 07-09-2012, 10:03 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
Bba is largely caused by flucuating c02 levels more than insufficient c02 levels.. so keep in mind people that have c02 generally have more of a consistency problem than not enoug. This has been my observation. I used to have almost stressed fauna for months on end with medium lighting and still got bba. Drop checker was beyond yellow it seemed.
Now with good surface agitation to keep gas exchange constant i get none. I do have to inject more to keep levels decent but they are far lower than before
is there a lab report on this?
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Old 07-09-2012, 11:02 PM   #8
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I'll be keeping an eye on this thread in case you do come up with something conclusive. I'v left the co2 running for 24hrs for several months at one point just test this inconsistency theory and still got bba.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:05 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by In.a.Box View Post
is there a lab report on this?
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Originally Posted by Rev2eight View Post
I'll be keeping an eye on this thread in case you do come up with something conclusive. I'v left the co2 running for 24hrs for several months at one point just test this inconsistency theory and still got bba.
No lab report just experience.

Just because its on doesnt mean its consistent even 24 hours but there are many who have great success..
Light still plays a huge factor in bba.
It is my conclusion throug lots of experience with bba, lots of toying with light levels; with low light and flucuating c02 i got bba everytime. High light with flucating c02 was horrible, rapid black algae growth while high light with low levels of c02 was slower and more controlled.

Plants prefer a consistent amount of all nutrients, c02 the most they use it to synthesize almost all of their makeup. Plants produce chemicals to prevent infections and algae from growing on them. Without constant healthy growth, they cannot do this, this is how bba is controlled based on my studies. Its why low but consistent c02 levels slowed down growth better than higher but less consisten c02.

Consistent does not mean on for 24hours. The main cause seems to be for most, c02 levels that go up all day long, thye start with a green drop checker but end the day with yellow. This means c02 is constantly going up, plants like the end result and try to prepare their metabolism to it but start the day out with less. Start the day with the same amount u turn the lights off and see how well your plants grow. Its really kind of amazing
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:16 AM   #10
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I've never had a problem with BBA in a densely planted aquarium, co2 or not.
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Old 07-10-2012, 01:50 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD Blazingwolf View Post
Consistent does not mean on for 24hours. The main cause seems to be for most, c02 levels that go up all day long, thye start with a green drop checker but end the day with yellow. This means c02 is constantly going up, plants like the end result and try to prepare their metabolism to it but start the day out with less. Start the day with the same amount u turn the lights off and see how well your plants grow. Its really kind of amazing
Blazing,
I am also trying to understand this. By what you said above, does that mean:
1. we monitor our drop checker the 1 hr when lights are on, make sure drop checker stays (lime green). This is because the first few hour when lights are on, things starts to become unsteady, and our goal is to make sure things are steady throughout the photoperiod. and therefore, we have to make sure during the last 10 min during lights on that drop checker is still lime green.

2. when Rev turns on his co2 24 7 he may not have achieve steady steady state from the go of his photoperiod and this leads to fluctuation in co2 level.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
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Blazing,
I am also trying to understand this. By what you said above, does that mean:
1. we monitor our drop checker the 1 hr when lights are on, make sure drop checker stays (lime green). This is because the first few hour when lights are on, things starts to become unsteady, and our goal is to make sure things are steady throughout the photoperiod. and therefore, we have to make sure during the last 10 min during lights on that drop checker is still lime green.

2. when Rev turns on his co2 24 7 he may not have achieve steady steady state from the go of his photoperiod and this leads to fluctuation in co2 level.

Thanks for your input.
The goal is not the last ten minutes. It is indeed the whole photoperiod! Surface agitation was once recommended to me by plantbrain, aka Tom Barr. I now see the multitude of benefits by having it, it provides a steady gas exchange of c02 and oxygen. By exchanging c02 u are preventing a buildup of c02 from happening this is how consistency is achieved. Most pressure regulators and needle valves we use are very precise for our needs so the problem does not lie there, but in the concentration of the water column.
What u are trying to achieve if I were to put into numbers. For example beforeu turnon c02 uhave 1 ppm of c02 in the water column. C02 on. When lights come on u are striving to reach say 20 ppm. U reach that. Keep it there all day. Lights grout. C02 off and u start the process over. Plants will prepare their metabolism for that amount of c02 and will produce enzymes accordingly.
U start the day with c02 on and reach 20ppm but Blythe end of the day dur at 38ppm with a yellow drop checker, fish seem fine and plants are pearling. Ur happy! The problem is, tomorrow morning, ur plants want 38ppm not 20. And trust me 38ppm is not a lot, I've been much higher and 30 seems to be a common zone on here but it's a figurative number. Oxygen levels will determine much off how much c02 can be added. Plants and light determine how much u need. They will owever adjust to how much they are given to a certain extent much the same as an animal will adapt to available food and water supplies.

I do not measure c02 by drop checkers anymore. I've used digital equipment, and tritation kits and drop checkers at this point just let me know my c02 is still working. I base my levels off plant growth and fish respirations per minute.
I don't want to over inject any tank, it's wasteful. Not every tank will need a lime green drop checker as reference. Some may need yellow some may need just turning from blue to green. It all depends on the plants and the amount of c02 they require for the given amont of light.




As for 24h. It usually reaches an equilibrium at some point and will go no higher. In most cases when running 24 hours the issue will become not enough c02 for the amount of light. Airstones, can be beneficial or detrimental here. They burn off c02 fast. Some run them at night to keep c02 from building up. The key there timing as to when it comes on and when it goes off. The beneficial part s added oxygen which definitely helps prevent algae and does help the bio filter as well.
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Old 07-10-2012, 02:23 PM   #13
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HD,

I too am trying to get a grasp of what you are saying.

CO2 consistancey, throughout the day. I got that much. But then you said that you dont have to run the co2 24 hours a day. Then you discribed EXACTLY what i, and i assume most folks are doing, starting the day with a nice green drop checker and by lights out its yellow ans i have great pearling.

My daily regime to a "T". And low and behold i too have BBA.

I have a decently planted 125g that running through a 20# co2 bottle every 2 months. Light and co2 are on the SAME timer. On for 8.5 hours a day. If i ran my co2 for 24 hours, i would burn through a 20# bottle in a few weeks.

solution?
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:12 PM   #14
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20lb in 2 months? i think u have a leak somewhere
i need some info, what is ur method of filtration, added flow in the tank? more specific timing of lights and c02 would also help
type of light, distance in inches from susbtrate. type of diffusion method
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Old 07-10-2012, 03:13 PM   #15
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I got BBA when i have too much light
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