my new ram died
Planted Tank Forums
Your Tanks Image Hosting *Tank Tracker * Plant Profiles Fish Profiles Planted Tank Guide Photo Gallery Articles

Go Back   The Planted Tank Forum > Specific Aspects of a Planted Tank > Fish


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-16-2012, 09:10 PM   #1
sepehr
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: texas
Posts: 163
Default

my new ram died


I bought a single male golden ram about 5 days ago. He was fine at first and eating good but after 2 days he started breathing very fast and this morning I found him dead between the plants.

I have a 75 gallon planted, co2 injected tank. I have cardinals, rummy noses, pearl danios, ottos, and corrys and they have been in my tank for over a year and all doing fine. The only thing I did was to change my weekly water change this past Sunday. Other than that, I'm clueless as why the ram all of a sudden started breathing heavily.

Oh and one more thing my LFS uses tap water which is around 7.8 and the water in my tank is about 6.8...so what gives? Rummy noses & cardinals are also have been know to be picky fish, howcome they're doing fine? Could it be that the ram was sick from before?
sepehr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Old 07-16-2012, 09:20 PM   #2
Plant keeper
Wannabe Guru
 
Plant keeper's Avatar
 
PTrader: (33/100%)
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Howell Michigan
Posts: 1,193
Default

he could have been stress from the ph difference.
__________________
Plant keeper is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-16-2012, 09:29 PM   #3
Drowki
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 240
Send a message via AIM to Drowki
Default

What color is the Rummynose's nose? Is it a bright red? Those are good canary fish for the tank.

What are your water paramaters? temp?
What kind of filter do you use?

When you got the fish, did you do a fresh water change prior to the fish being added? If not did you do any water change during that time?Was this fish wild caught? or tank raised? - that plays a huge part in it as well.


my bet is stress related from the PH difference as Plant Keeper suggested +1.

How did you bring the fish into the tank? If they are cories you can drop them right into the tank, and they will be fine. However with the Rams, they need TLC. When I brought my German Blues to my 55 gallon, I did a slow drip of 3 hours!!! I went a little overboard, but I know how sensitive they are. Granted, the PH difference is huge and regardless of slow drip or not.... they will still do that.

Oddly enough, they like lower PH water....


Also, what size tank do you have?
Drowki is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-16-2012, 09:36 PM   #4
CatB
Wannabe Guru
 
CatB's Avatar
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 1,018
Send a message via AIM to CatB Send a message via Skype™ to CatB
Default

same as above, how did you acclimate the fish? i'm betting on the pH difference as well. or not being used to CO2.
CatB is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2012, 03:08 AM   #5
sepehr
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: texas
Posts: 163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drowki View Post
What color is the Rummynose's nose? Is it a bright red? Those are good canary fish for the tank.

What are your water paramaters? temp?
What kind of filter do you use?

When you got the fish, did you do a fresh water change prior to the fish being added? If not did you do any water change during that time?Was this fish wild caught? or tank raised? - that plays a huge part in it as well.


my bet is stress related from the PH difference as Plant Keeper suggested +1.

How did you bring the fish into the tank? If they are cories you can drop them right into the tank, and they will be fine. However with the Rams, they need TLC. When I brought my German Blues to my 55 gallon, I did a slow drip of 3 hours!!! I went a little overboard, but I know how sensitive they are. Granted, the PH difference is huge and regardless of slow drip or not.... they will still do that.

Oddly enough, they like lower PH water....


Also, what size tank do you have?
The temp. is 76 F.
Tank size 75 gallons
Filter: canister 300 G/H + 2 wavemakers for additional surface agitation
Amonia: 0 ppm
nitrites: 0 ppm
nitrates: 20-25 ppm
PH: 6.8

Rummynose's nose are real red and they're the healthiest fish in my tank, they're like little sharks. I have to admit that I didn't drip acclimate the ram, I just placed the bag in water and added small amounts of water during a period of almost an hour. Like I mentioned, the ram was doing fine for the first 2 days then I did the usual weekly waterchange and the next day he started breathing real fast. So IMO I don't think it was my method of acclimation.

And like you mentioned they supposed to like to like acidic water, don't they? And if they aren't used to the CO2 in the water, does this mean I could never have a ram in my tank since all of them come from tap water aquariums of the LFS?
sepehr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2012, 03:32 AM   #6
Aquaticfan
Wannabe Guru
 
Aquaticfan's Avatar
 
PTrader: (12/100%)
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 1,200
Default

I can tell you exactly what I think the issue is...

Its not the PH.

My GBR's and my Bolivians both arfe in water where the PH swing goes from 7.4 down to 6.2 and back up.. and back down.. Yes it is injected Co2.

Question........ Did you turn off the Co2 quite a while before adding the fish? Anytime you add any new fish especially sensitive fish like rams you always want to give the tank some time to off gas the Co2 in it. If you put them into a tank with low O2/High Co2 its a Major shock. Some can die instantly and some may last a few days. The give away is the fact it was breathing hard and its common practice that you should shut your Co2 off and acclimate them very well before turning Co2 back on and even then do it slowly with increasing levels.

Also Rams prefer a much warmer water closer to 80 degrees. Mine breed but wont even think about it till the water hits 81.


How slowly did you acclimate the fish to your water? if done slowly the PH difference wouldnt have mattered either.
__________________
Sun Sun pimp #72
RAOK CLUB # 68

Conway
Aquaticfan is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2012, 08:30 AM   #7
pandamonium
Wannabe Guru
 
pandamonium's Avatar
 
PTrader: (27/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,076
Default

i had mysterious ram deaths before. not sure why as i didnt have CO2 or anything. i attributed it to violence among the rams. i think i had too many. i keep my water at 81 as well so i would suggest to raise the temp. rams can inhabit water up to 86 or so in the wild. if your rams were wild caught, i would suggest keeping the water acidic and soft as well, mimicking the natural environment of the amazon where they are from
pandamonium is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2012, 02:02 PM   #8
Drowki
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (2/100%)
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Hoboken, NJ
Posts: 240
Send a message via AIM to Drowki
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sepehr View Post
The temp. is 76 F.
Tank size 75 gallons
Filter: canister 300 G/H + 2 wavemakers for additional surface agitation
Amonia: 0 ppm
nitrites: 0 ppm
nitrates: 20-25 ppm
PH: 6.8

Rummynose's nose are real red and they're the healthiest fish in my tank, they're like little sharks. I have to admit that I didn't drip acclimate the ram, I just placed the bag in water and added small amounts of water during a period of almost an hour. Like I mentioned, the ram was doing fine for the first 2 days then I did the usual weekly waterchange and the next day he started breathing real fast. So IMO I don't think it was my method of acclimation.

And like you mentioned they supposed to like to like acidic water, don't they? And if they aren't used to the CO2 in the water, does this mean I could never have a ram in my tank since all of them come from tap water aquariums of the LFS?

Rummynose's are perfectly healthy and your tank is perfect for the Rams. Just need to increase that temp. I would go out and buy one, and do a drip aliclamation (i cannot spell!) do it for about an hour at least, if you want to be overly cauctious do it for 2 (bit over kill). He/she should be perfectly fine in that tank, minus the temp!

I keep tank on one side about 83 and the other side of thank is colder with the output.. and that is approx 78. My rams basically live on the warm side and made a little fort next to my flower pot.
Drowki is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2012, 02:50 PM   #9
sepehr
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: texas
Posts: 163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drowki View Post
Rummynose's are perfectly healthy and your tank is perfect for the Rams. Just need to increase that temp. I would go out and buy one, and do a drip aliclamation (i cannot spell!) do it for about an hour at least, if you want to be overly cauctious do it for 2 (bit over kill). He/she should be perfectly fine in that tank, minus the temp!

I keep tank on one side about 83 and the other side of thank is colder with the output.. and that is approx 78. My rams basically live on the warm side and made a little fort next to my flower pot.
That's intersting, how do you keep one side of the tank warmer than the other? By using a smaller heater? My tank is 75g if I put a heater for a 29g tank on oneside of the tank, would that side be warmer?
sepehr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2012, 02:53 PM   #10
sepehr
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: texas
Posts: 163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandamonium View Post
i had mysterious ram deaths before. not sure why as i didnt have CO2 or anything. i attributed it to violence among the rams. i think i had too many. i keep my water at 81 as well so i would suggest to raise the temp. rams can inhabit water up to 86 or so in the wild. if your rams were wild caught, i would suggest keeping the water acidic and soft as well, mimicking the natural environment of the amazon where they are from
I don't know if the ram was wild caught but the PH in my tank is at 6.8. I guess they're one of the pickiest fish one could buy.
sepehr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2012, 02:55 PM   #11
sepehr
Planted Member
 
PTrader: (0/0%)
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: texas
Posts: 163
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquaticfan View Post
I can tell you exactly what I think the issue is...

Its not the PH.

My GBR's and my Bolivians both arfe in water where the PH swing goes from 7.4 down to 6.2 and back up.. and back down.. Yes it is injected Co2.

Question........ Did you turn off the Co2 quite a while before adding the fish? Anytime you add any new fish especially sensitive fish like rams you always want to give the tank some time to off gas the Co2 in it. If you put them into a tank with low O2/High Co2 its a Major shock. Some can die instantly and some may last a few days. The give away is the fact it was breathing hard and its common practice that you should shut your Co2 off and acclimate them very well before turning Co2 back on and even then do it slowly with increasing levels.

Also Rams prefer a much warmer water closer to 80 degrees. Mine breed but wont even think about it till the water hits 81.


How slowly did you acclimate the fish to your water? if done slowly the PH difference wouldnt have mattered either.
No, I didn't turn off the CO2 when I let the ram into the tank but thanks for the advice. If I get brave enough to purchase another ram, I'm going to turn off the co2 for couple of hours while the ram is acclimating.
sepehr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-17-2012, 08:29 PM   #12
Waterrat
Algae Grower
 
PTrader: (1/100%)
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Palatine, IL
Posts: 8
Default

sepehr,

I agree with Aquaticfan, it's not the PH. Even though most of what you read on the internet says that Rams need a pH of 6.5 (ideally) all of our Rams are raised in tap water (pH 7.2-7.4) and there are no problems. I believe that the 6.5 pH applies more to wild-caught or rams in their native environment. Your tap water should be just fine, but your temperature needs to be boosted if you want Rams to do well. We keep our tanks between 82-85 degrees.

Your Co2 seems to be the more likely culprit. Follow Aquatifan's advice, turn off your Co2, and acclimate them slowly to your water and they should be fine.

Rams also seem to do better in groups or pairs than individually.

Good Luck!
Waterrat is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the The Planted Tank Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
If you do not want to register, fill this field only and the name will be used as user name for your post.
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 08:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright Planted Tank LLC 2012