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Old 08-26-2014, 11:28 PM   #1
Little Soprano
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Need some advice!


After the incident with all three of my Amanos dying off, I'm kind of trying to figure out what to do at this point. I really wanted to get Tiger Shrimps, but if I can't keep Amanos alive, I don't think it's my place to get more shrimp lol.

Should I go ahead and just give it a shot with Tigers? Maybe just get a few temporary fish and just let the tank run? Give up?

They were so extremely happy in the tank right up until they died, and then they dropped off one by one, right after molting. I had them for three weeks, and they were blue at the shop, but they had started to color up and look better in the tank, and then for some odd reason they all died :/

They never even tried to escape or anything, no frantic swimming, just relaxed and eating away at algae.

I could always go with RCS, but I really had my heart set on the Tigers (standard/regular ones).
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:46 PM   #2
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I wouldn't, amanos are pretty invincible as far as shrimp go.. If you get ro or distilled water and some shrimp minerals you can have whatever kind you want, though
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Old 08-27-2014, 12:34 AM   #3
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yeah don't waste your money on tigers. if your amano's can't survive you have a problem.
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Old 08-27-2014, 02:49 AM   #4
Little Soprano
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Well if it matters I'm 90% certain it was an infection, because when they were at the LFS they were somewhat blue, and well, I thought that was normal because I'm a noob. My Macro lived for quite some time in the ten gallon :/. I'm starting to wonder if the extreme water change (dropped down to an inch or so of water) when I had to move the tank to a new stand, might have made the infection take hold. I have no idea though.

Maybe it's just time I find more Macro Red Claw shrimps
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Old 08-27-2014, 03:42 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Soprano View Post
Well if it matters I'm 90% certain it was an infection, because when they were at the LFS they were somewhat blue, and well, I thought that was normal because I'm a noob. My Macro lived for quite some time in the ten gallon :/. I'm starting to wonder if the extreme water change (dropped down to an inch or so of water) when I had to move the tank to a new stand, might have made the infection take hold. I have no idea though.

Maybe it's just time I find more Macro Red Claw shrimps
DANG! Thats way to big of a water change! That would kill just about anything haha Shrimp are very delicate to water shifts... I only do a 10% water change every 2 weeks in my CRS tank.. get your tank set up again and use RO/ distilled water. Your shrimp will be just fine in that.
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:30 AM   #6
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lol! I was too much of a weakingly to lift it with any more water then that heh. They were just sitting there eating their food while I was moving the tank. It was just so weird after I filled back up the tank to see everything go down hill so fast... they were getting 50% water changes weekly, but I think I also screwed up the temperature (too warm) too. I've debated going the R.O. route, but my water isn't bad and my LFS uses tap for their Amanos, same with the other LFS that raises all the macros.

I have no idea. I figure tomorrow I'll just go pick up a few zebras or something to temporarily keep the tank cycled until I figure out what I'm going to do. Though the ever growing population of bladder snails probably has kept it going, and if I go the shrimp route, just move them into the 40 gallon. Which is terribly understocked and filled with old farts :P
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Old 08-28-2014, 02:07 PM   #7
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Amanos can be blue, I believe it's do to either eating a type of algae, or stress, or both- a couple of mine were blue before. An infection would more likely be the shrimp turning milky/opaque/white, not blue.

That being said, i'm about 150% sure it was the water change that did it. I know for a fact they can handle 50% w/c's daily if done slowly since I had some in a fry tank, but a rise in temperature and change in water that quick is doomsday to anything. I did it once, lost some of my favorite fish.

If it's just a ten gallon, it's pretty easy to buy distilled water from a store. You don't want to do too many water changes with tigers and the like, and very small ones when you do, so you could just buy 10 gallons at first and keep a few extras around for water changes. There are also cheaper RO (around 100$) units floating around the internet if you're into online shopping hehe. For remineralizing I use salty shrimp gh+, but the fluval stuff is probably available in pet stores and works well too. Any made for shrimp specifically should be good, really
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Old 08-28-2014, 04:01 PM   #8
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Amanos can be blue, I believe it's do to either eating a type of algae, or stress, or both- a couple of mine were blue before. An infection would more likely be the shrimp turning milky/opaque/white, not blue.

That being said, i'm about 150% sure it was the water change that did it. I know for a fact they can handle 50% w/c's daily if done slowly since I had some in a fry tank, but a rise in temperature and change in water that quick is doomsday to anything. I did it once, lost some of my favorite fish.

If it's just a ten gallon, it's pretty easy to buy distilled water from a store. You don't want to do too many water changes with tigers and the like, and very small ones when you do, so you could just buy 10 gallons at first and keep a few extras around for water changes. There are also cheaper RO (around 100$) units floating around the internet if you're into online shopping hehe. For remineralizing I use salty shrimp gh+, but the fluval stuff is probably available in pet stores and works well too. Any made for shrimp specifically should be good, really
Our LFS has wicked cheap R.O. water (30 something cents a gallon), so it would only be about 3.50 to fully fill my tank, but my tap water is really pretty good out here for the most part. kH and GH are a little high, but otherwise it's very good water. Not even chloramines.

The other thing that someone mentioned in my one thread was that maybe it was a molting issue, but I have no idea. My Red Claw Macro shrimp molted regularly with no issues, but thy are a whole different ball game shrimp wise.
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:14 PM   #9
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If it's a molting issue it's due to water parameters, i've tried everything in the book to solve those before without RO water and it's just a waste of time, guaranteed ( Does your tap match up with tiger shrimp params? If so then it'd be fine, but good water doesn't really mean anything if it's not the right type of good. I've never had tigers, but the internet tells me they like:
PH - 6.5-7.5
GH- 5-8
KH 1-2
tds 100-200

If your tap GH is to low you can add shrimp minerals just to that, if it's too high you can research if there is anyone who's kept them in your parameters successfully. Just beware that just because some people have luck doesn't mean you will, so it's a risk, a potentially expensive and sad one ;c
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Old 08-28-2014, 08:44 PM   #10
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I just moved my shrimp into my dorm room, and I keep them in a 5-gallon. I transported all the water in 1-gallon jugs so that they wouldn't get shock from the water change.
The most I've done for my rilis is 20%, and they weren't too happy about that.
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Old 08-28-2014, 09:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marz View Post
If it's a molting issue it's due to water parameters, i've tried everything in the book to solve those before without RO water and it's just a waste of time, guaranteed ( Does your tap match up with tiger shrimp params? If so then it'd be fine, but good water doesn't really mean anything if it's not the right type of good. I've never had tigers, but the internet tells me they like:
PH - 6.5-7.5
GH- 5-8
KH 1-2
tds 100-200

If your tap GH is to low you can add shrimp minerals just to that, if it's too high you can research if there is anyone who's kept them in your parameters successfully. Just beware that just because some people have luck doesn't mean you will, so it's a risk, a potentially expensive and sad one ;c
My KH is the one thats a little higher, the GH is pretty good. pH is at 7.4-7.6ish (I'm terrible at the API color cards LOL). The first one molted and died maybe 3 days later, then the next two molted, one died two days later and the next the day after. I thought maybe it was a lack of calcium maybe, but unless I'm having a memory lapse, I thought KH correlated with calcium?

My tap water doesn't match up perfectly, but the place I'm going to get Tigers from uses the same tap water. So I was hoping it might be possible if I started out with young ones. I am willing to do R.O. water, but if I could avoid it, that would be ideal-poor 20 year old.

It was just so strange to me cause they were SO relaxed from the moment I put them in (they were drip acclimated). I mean like never trying to escape, never freaked out when I was watching. They seemed so calm I didn't see it coming. Someone mentioned it could've been bacterial, though I am starting to lean more and more towards me screwing up the water change temp (it was fairly drastic, I spaced out and made it the same as the big tank), or it could've been a combination of things.

I'm not sure what my TDS was, but previous to the messed up water change, I was doing slow (I put in about a gallon at a time pretty slow) 50% water changes, with no problems. And I'd do 10-20% ones a few times a week to get out uneaten food. This water change was one of those "holy crap they've been in too little water for too long" hurried water changes. I probably should've just gone slowly, especially since they were just sitting there eating, but I can't go back in time. They molted RIGHT after that, if it matters. So I don't know. I'm debating getting 1 or 2 again and seeing how they do without me screwing up, and then going from there.
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Old 08-28-2014, 11:35 PM   #12
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Big water changes can force molts too soon, which can cause death, though i'm not sure how likely that is. I can't help much more in the molt issue department, as mine died stuck inside them, not a few days later. Were they acting strange after molting? Maybe for some reason their shells didn't harden back up, which would be from a lack of calcium. KH is not especially important so long as it isn't too high, but my amanos don't care about my 11+ KH, so you can rule that out on anything under that. My GH is 5, so if the gh is not lower than that, that likely wasn't the reason either. How long did you have them? Some amanos are beat up pretty badly in shipping, so it could be a bad batch + the severe water change.

As for the tigers, if they are kept in water exactly like yours and seem to do fine over a long period of time, i'd say go for it. But make sure they are doing fine, not just new batches that are sold/die off over and over. To be safe i'd go with a cheapy type to test out before spending 15$+ on an OEBT though, but that should be obvious lol Should go without saying to make sure everything is cycled 100% first and only do tiny water changes once you get them. If you have problems then - distilled from the store. It'll only cost you the start up water, 5 gallons extra for water changes a month, and about 10-20$ for a bottle of shrimp mineral that will pretty much last forever.
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Old 08-29-2014, 03:37 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Big water changes can force molts too soon, which can cause death, though i'm not sure how likely that is. I can't help much more in the molt issue department, as mine died stuck inside them, not a few days later. Were they acting strange after molting? Maybe for some reason their shells didn't harden back up, which would be from a lack of calcium. KH is not especially important so long as it isn't too high, but my amanos don't care about my 11+ KH, so you can rule that out on anything under that. My GH is 5, so if the gh is not lower than that, that likely wasn't the reason either. How long did you have them? Some amanos are beat up pretty badly in shipping, so it could be a bad batch + the severe water change.

As for the tigers, if they are kept in water exactly like yours and seem to do fine over a long period of time, i'd say go for it. But make sure they are doing fine, not just new batches that are sold/die off over and over. To be safe i'd go with a cheapy type to test out before spending 15$+ on an OEBT though, but that should be obvious lol Should go without saying to make sure everything is cycled 100% first and only do tiny water changes once you get them. If you have problems then - distilled from the store. It'll only cost you the start up water, 5 gallons extra for water changes a month, and about 10-20$ for a bottle of shrimp mineral that will pretty much last forever.
I got them about three weeks previous to them dying. They actually seemed "normal" before they died. One was acting weird slightly weird before dying (the second one), like it was barely moving but breathing... The other two were acting normal, and bam next morning, dead. They were pretty blue at the store, but they were starting to color up when I got them in my tank. Then they turned blueish post molt, and dead.



Thats probably the only picture I have of them (excuse the dirty glass... old stand was wobbly, couldn't clean it well, hence new sturdier stand).

The tank, I like to believe, was relatively mature before I got the shrimp. Started in April I think, I let it cycle, Comet was in it until pond got up and running, then I had a baby koi in it for a few weeks until it got bigger, then some neons and my Red Claw Macro called it home. Then I did a quick Algaefix treatment, I made sure the tank was still cycled afterwards, and then added the Amanos. Who ironically came from a tank undergoing an Algaefix treatment. It is sitting at 68 degrees, but they just never were bothered at all the entire time. It's why it came as such a shock to me they died. It wasn't even as if they were acting stressed post molt, I mean I didn't understand what the blue meant, but aside from the one acting strange right before it died, the other two were just acting like shrimp haha.
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Old 08-29-2014, 10:49 PM   #14
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Ah, I'm afraid to say it seems to be the algaefix that did them in. There symptoms do match poisoning, and when I looked to find the ingredients in algaefix, I found a warning:

"NOTE: Do NOT use AlgaeFix with crustaceans, including crabs, shrimp, freshwater shrimp and freshwater lobsters."

Sad, but it shouldn't have any affect on future shrimp, so long as you make sure it's out of the tank entirely before adding new ones..
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