Drop Checker color question.

[radioman]

My co2 comes on an hour before lights on and when the lights come on the DC is still a blueish color. By the end of the day it is a very light green color. My question is do I need to up my co2 since it is blue in the morning or should it be fine?

[Complexity]

The blueish color is telling you that the CO2 saturation is low when the lights are coming on, but it eventually is able to get higher later in the day.

You can watch it to get some idea of how long it takes for the color to change. Keeping in mind that the DC color changes slowly and only after the CO2 saturation changes in the tank, you may want to start the CO2 a little earlier.

However, I think a better way to check is to watch the plants. Do they ever start pearling during the day? If so, when do they start pearling in relation to the reading on the DC? When the lights first come on, you should notice some of your plants are "closed" and it will take a little time for them to open up. After that, they should start pearling. If they don't, but start pearling later, then that may indicate that there's not enough CO2 in the tank early in the day. But if they start pearling soon after opening and continue to pearl like mad all day long, then I wouldn't worry about it.

The DC is a nice guide, but the real indicator is how much the plants are pearling.

[radioman]

With my ASA on off valve it was blue for a long time and then turned dark green by the end of the day. Now that I have good reg and good diffuser I am just trying to figure out the right levels. I had it set to turn on 1 and a half hours earlier than lights on today but it takes about 30min for the tubing to prime since my bubble count is low. I guess I will start it earlier and see where that takes me. Right now I am running 1 bubble every 3 seconds with an atomic diffuser and my drop checker is light green 2 hours before lights out.

[Complexity]

What about increasing your bubble count?

What you're doing is allowing the tank to drop the CO2 saturation significantly overnight and then trying to get it to increase the saturation quickly in the morning, but you want to do that with a low bubble count. That's contradictory. If you want to have a low bubble count, then you need to maintain a more stable CO2 saturation level at night so the CO2 won't have to go from such a low level to such a high level so quickly.

Another option is to use a pH controller. That's how I do it. I prefer to keep my CO2 stable at all times, day and night. Plus, since it's kept stable, I don't worry about gassing my fish at night.

You could try a combination of raising the bubble count and starting the CO2 earlier. That way you may be able to get a happy medium with both without having to give up too much of either.

Just thought of something else. Instead of using a diffusor, you could also switch to a reactor. Reactors are more efficient at combining the CO2 with the water which may help raise the CO2 faster with the low bubble count. It's another option to consider.

[Aquaticfan]

Originally Posted by Complexity

The blueish color is telling you that the CO2 saturation is low when the lights are coming on, but it eventually is able to get higher later in the day.

You can watch it to get some idea of how long it takes for the color to change. Keeping in mind that the DC color changes slowly and only after the CO2 saturation changes in the tank, you may want to start the CO2 a little earlier.

However, I think a better way to check is to watch the plants. Do they ever start pearling during the day? If so, when do they start pearling in relation to the reading on the DC? When the lights first come on, you should notice some of your plants are "closed" and it will take a little time for them to open up. After that, they should start pearling. If they don't, but start pearling later, then that may indicate that there's not enough CO2 in the tank early in the day. But if they start pearling soon after opening and continue to pearl like mad all day long, then I wouldn't worry about it.

The DC is a nice guide, but the real indicator is how much the plants are pearling.

Hi Complexity,

Sorry and not to be argumentative or anything.... BUT Plants pearling isnt the first thing I or anyone should use to judge Co2 levels in a tank. I know lots of people that NEVER get pearling but have incredible growth and colors and quality in their tanks. Reason for plants to never pearl but have plenty of Co2....... There are several factors involved. One would be bio load on the tank. Fish, Shrimps, Snails, Biological bacteria and more consume O2 in the water. If the bio load is higher plants more then likely wont pearl. If the dissolved O2 levels of the water are low, Plants will not pearl. Other things like Light levels and intensity will also make a huge difference. On lower (low to below high light) light tanks Pearling may not happen or might not happen til later in the day. BUT still have plenty of Co2.

What I use first and foremost is my livestock. My fish, Snails, Shrimps...etc.. As the guide as to how much Co2 can be SAFELY dumped into the water. To much and next thing you know youve got a tank of dead fish. I can try and bring back or grow a weak plant much easier then I can a dead fish or tank of them. So default should always go to the fish. When adjusting Co2 levels be sure to set aside enough time. For me in some of my set ups it can take a few days. I adjust Co2 levels gradually up until I see first signs of fish/livestock stress then I make note of that spot and then adjust it down to where they no longer show stress. This is the Max level you can go. I also back it down just a very very small hair more for a little safety zone. Most all my drop checkers run Yellow telling me im actually to much, but drop checkers while a nice tool are very inaccurate and slow. So I only use mine to give me an idea if the Co2 is actually on and running. My drop checkers take about an hour to hour and a half to reach color after first thing in the morning.


I do use my plants as a guide as well as any Algae issues I might see. But I use my livestock to tell me where I can set it at its highest. Plant growth and health helps after that, but pearling i not mandatory nor does it always happen.

I also find PH controllers very inaccurate as well. They dont tell you how much Co2 is in your water at all.

[Aquaticfan]

Originally Posted by Complexity

What about increasing your bubble count?

What you're doing is allowing the tank to drop the CO2 saturation significantly overnight and then trying to get it to increase the saturation quickly in the morning, but you want to do that with a low bubble count. That's contradictory. If you want to have a low bubble count, then you need to maintain a more stable CO2 saturation level at night so the CO2 won't have to go from such a low level to such a high level so quickly.

Another option is to use a pH controller. That's how I do it. I prefer to keep my CO2 stable at all times, day and night. Plus, since it's kept stable, I don't worry about gassing my fish at night.

You could try a combination of raising the bubble count and starting the CO2 earlier. That way you may be able to get a happy medium with both without having to give up too much of either.

Just thought of something else. Instead of using a diffusor, you could also switch to a reactor. Reactors are more efficient at combining the CO2 with the water which may help raise the CO2 faster with the low bubble count. It's another option to consider.

after reading and learning bubble count really is a variable as not all bubbles or bubble counters put off the same size bubble. Again using your live stock as a guide as to the high side is the main issue to watch. From that point if you make small incremental increases and changes till you hit that threshold the bubbles it makes will be irrelevant, You can after finding that sweet spot though use the bubble counter to help you always gauge.

I like to run my set ups like this..

I run my stuff all on timers. Lights and Co2. My co2 comes on 1 hour before my lights do. this allows me to load the tank a little with Co2 and get a head start on it before the lights engage. Doing this will help your levels be more effective from lights on. Then I either shut the Co2 off with the lights or just before by about an hour. This will give some time with lights on to burn up and use a lot of the Co2 in the tank before lights off and plants stop using the Co2 for the day. I dont like to run my Co2 24/7 personally. I used to and when I changed I found i got alot more life out of my Co2 tanks, My fish got a break at night to get more O2 as well as my Biological bacteria and even the higher O2 levels are good for the plants during that time. With starting an hour early with my Co2 I find my levels of Co2 in the water are plenty good and even.

I also agree with the reactor over diffusers. I am of course a preferential Reactor user and like the Cerges design. It dissolves the Co2 100% and makes it so my tank doesnt look like 7up. Its no extra equipment in the tank and easy to use and dial in. They do use a higher bubble count as they have no back pressure like a Atomizer or diffuser. But it doesnt mean your using more co2 as your not using any more then other methods.

[Complexity]

Aquaticfan, your comments are dually noted regarding the pearling. I was trying to use the pearling as a comparison measure (if the plants are pearling later in the day, but not earlier), but I can see what you're saying. If the tank conditions are such that the plants aren't pearling at all, then you can't use that for any kind of comparison.

I do the same thing you do in regards to finding the high levels of CO2 for the tank (see the last few posts in my 75g journal). However, the OP wasn't asking how to find the highest rate in which he can dose his CO2.

The problem he's having, as I understand it, is his CO2 saturation is dropping at night, but taking too long to raise back up in the morning. At the same time, he's using a very low bubble count (I think he said 1 bubble every 3 seconds) as well as a diffusor. He's using the color on his drop checker to determine his CO2 saturation.

So I was looking for another way in which he might be able to measure his morning CO2 saturation since drop checker take so long before registering a change (that's where the pearling idea came in). I was also suggesting that he increase his bubble count (regardless of whether they are variable between different setups, they are the same on his specific setup) and/or start his CO2 running earlier.

We'll have to simply disagree when it comes to pH controllers. My fish do not show any symptoms of an oxygen shortage in my tanks so I don't see a need to relieve them of anything at night. Instead, I prefer to maintain a very stable environment instead of having it bounce up and down every day. As with many of the options for our tanks, there are pros and cons to using a pH controller. Clearly you see more cons and I see more pros, and that's okay.

I definitely agree with you on using reactors for all the reasons you gave. When I set my original system up, there was no such thing as a Cerges design so I went with the Rex Griggs design. I have two of them running, and neither of them spit out any CO2 bubbles whatsoever so I've never had a reason to change to anything else. But from what I've been reading, the Cerges reactors seem to do just as well as the Rex Griggs reactors. If I ever need another reactor, I might give a Cerges a try.

But back to the OP's issue. Your setup is more similar to his setup than mine is. What suggestions can you offer him to get his CO2 saturation higher in the morning?

[Aquaticfan]

To the op's issue.....

First thing id remember is this.. Your drop checker is highly influenced. The readings you may be getting may be largely inaccurate or "Slow" due to the things that can effect it.


Things like..... Current/flow in the tank. If the Current or flow in the area of your drop checker is higher it can keep the drop checker from collecting enough Co2 at all or fast enough to make it change colors or be slow. Same would be if it was in a stagnate area but the effect would be that with to low or no flow in a given area it may have no or to little Co2 in that placement to effect or make it change slow. The plant load you have and how heavily planted can also have an effect. As your plants grow the load becomes more making it able to consume Co2 faster and making the concentrations in the water less. Light intensity. Higher light drives the plant energy higher so it needs fuel. Co2. That can also cause slow or low drop checker reaction.

Again. I only use a drop checker as a tool to tell me my Co2 is in the water and working at a glance. I Never use it as an accurate means to tell me how much co2 is in the water. NOR do I let it tell me how fast it has reached that high level. Drop Checkers if placed right and you have the right amount going in can change using an atomizer in 30 minutes to 2 hours.

My first question to the OP is Have you tried more then one drop checker or moving the location around? How old is your 4Dkh fluid? That can cause slow issues if old. Do you want to keep the bubble count lower?

I would first try moving the bubble counter around. If you move it all over and try a new place daily with no changes then Turn on the Co2 as early as 2 hours before the lights turn on, OR turn up the Co2 amount.

If it was me id establish a high level Co2 ceiling using your livestock as the gauge. Back it off just a hair after finding the safe zone then try it one hour before lights on. Personally I dont think 1bps is enough. Make sure you have good circulation in the tank. After doing all that Then id adjust what time I turn on the Co2 from 1 hour to 2 hours before lights on. A drop checker in a good spot with enough Co2 should change within 2 hours at least a little. Not the end of the day.

[radioman]

My drop checker is across the tank from the diffuser so that I can get an idea of the co2 concentrations at the farthest point. The 4dkh solution isn't that old but the ph solution is. I was seeing some possible signs of stress a couple days ago at the end of the day so I had turned the bubble count down. I will probably increase it tomorrow and keep an eye on things.

Edit: I just adjusted it from 1 bubble every 2.20 seconds to 1 bp 1.40 sec. I will let you know how it goes.

[Complexity]

I hope that works for you. If not, I think you have a good idea of what to do to get it adjusted. Other than switching to a reactor, it's pretty much a matter of tweaking the settings until you get it the way you want it. And as can be seen from the discussions in this thread, there's more than one way to do it and still be successful.

[talontsiawd]

As said, the drop checker is slow to react. Mine starts off aqua blue in the morning and yellow by the end of the photoperiod (no livestock, so I am using high co2 levels right now). That's with the CO2 on 3 hours before the lights turn on. I do have a lot of off gassing at night but I can say with confidence that their is a much higher level of co2 in the tank when the lights come on (drop checker changes in about an hour so easy assumption). I am sure it is well past 30PPM before mid day, even though it's not quite lime green.

On with new solution and starting with new water in the tank, my drop checker will take 7-8 hours to stay at one color if not more. It's a good guide, but as people say, it's far from exact. Use it for ball park and watch your fish. Once they start to get stressed, pull back a bit. If you are off gassing enough, they should be fine pretty quickly (sounds like you are since your drop checker goes to blue). After a week, you can try again, you may be able to go higher as the fish are used to a higher level of CO2, maybe not.

I don't pay attention to the plants, only the fish. The reason is I see no reason to inject less CO2 than you can without gassing the fish. The exception would be if you had really expensive livestock and you don't really need CO2 in the first place, then don't go as far. I still would put 2 or 3kh solution in my drop checker and use that as a reference, but for less CO2, as a more important guide.

I am not saying plant growth is not important, I am just saying that fish life is most important and you can't go higher than what your fish can take without death and going well below what they can handle doesn't have much advantage. You won't likely see much difference in things right away anyway so I just go for the most I can inject. With no fish, I just figure once I am in the bright yellow, no need to go further as I will eventually add fish.

[radioman]

Thanks you all for the help. I found a dried up shrimp today but don't believe it to be co2 related since none have shown any signs of stress. It just happens from time to time when you have no top.

[funkjosh]

i just started using a drop checker and its been about 4 hours and i think its turning a blue-greenish color. or mayb im starring at it too much