Sick cardinals and some backstory

[talontsiawd]

I have some sick cardinals. It's ick, typical white spots. One fish has what looks like hard water stains. However, I want to give some back story to pick the best treatment.

These fish first got Ick about 2 months ago. I used Tetra Lifegaurd "All-In One Treatment". It did not work very well and it only went away after using it for 3 days past the recommended time (5 days).

At the same time, I noticed my plants suffering. This has happened before so I didn't think much about me. I happened to put the thermometer on my low tech, non heated tank since it's heated up quite a bit here. I don't know why it occurred to me but I decided to put the thermometer back in the big tank. It turns out my heater is acting up and my temp is up about 10 degrees. It seems consistant though.

So, first off, I assume the high temps could stress the fish because of lower oxygen levels. I am assuming this could cause Ick, or if it wasn't gone, it could accelerate the process. True?

Secondly, I know 86 degrees is high but should I take the temp down during treatment. I have treated Ick successfully in the past by just raising the temp and using epson salt. What would you recommend here? I have another heater but it maxes out at 78 degrees.


As for treatment, I have a few options but not much money so I am wondering what would be the best for what I have.

1. Use the Tetra Lifegaurd stuff. I think this is the worst idea as it hasn't worked in the last treatment well and may have not eliminated it at all.

2. Use Rid-Ick. This has worked well. The thing is, it's pretty old (like 5 years or more). Does it expire?

3. Epson salt and high temps. Obviously I don't want to raise the temp but I could keep the temp where it is and add epson salt.

4. Add UV sterilizer. I have heard people say that it has cured Ick for them in already affected fish. I know its good about getting it out of the water but I am kind of doubtful for infected fish. I only want to do it if I have to because it is inline and I have to plumb it into my system. Not too hard but if it isn't needed, I don't want to do it. I understand it should not be used while using any medication.

5. A combination of above (or something else that is affordable).


I understand everyone has their own methods. I have been successful with 2 of these but the Ick is more advanced than I have dealt with. I just want to be safe and effective as I lost 2 fish in the outbreak 2 months ago and another one this morning. I don't want to loose my stock.

Thanks in advance and feel free to give any advice outside of my questions anything else. I just haven't dealt with this outside this tank in quite awhile.

[mrduna01]

If I were you I would keep the temp around 82 to 84. Get a new bottle of rid ick and dose per the instructions. Add an air stone to increase oxygen and keep dosing until all visible signs are gone for several days. I would do 5 days.

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[zdnet]

Originally Posted by talontsiawd

I know its good about getting it out of the water but I am kind of doubtful for infected fish.

Little can be done on ich when they are in the fish body. Even chemical treatment CANNOT reach them.

[talontsiawd]

I hate to admit but for the near future, I can't afford any medication. Does Rid Ich expire? It has no expiration date. It is has been used so the seal has been broken for awhile. I cannot find an expiration date. I know this may sound irresponsible but it is my reality. I have been searching for about an hour and cannot find any info about how long this stuff is good for.

[mrduna01]

Originally Posted by talontsiawd

I hate to admit but for the near future, I can't afford any medication. Does Rid Ich expire? It has no expiration date. It is has been used so the seal has been broken for awhile. I cannot find an expiration date. I know this may sound irresponsible but it is my reality. I have been searching for about an hour and cannot find any info about how long this stuff is good for.

Just give it a try. I'm not sure if it expires or not. I doubt it would be harmful though. You could call and ask the kordon as well

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[HybridHerp]

I had a MASSIVE ick outbreak while I was away to college, and managed to save all of my fish by doing simply 3 things
1. heaters set at 86
2. lots and lots of aeration
3. salt, lots and lots and lots of salt
I managed to save all but 2 fish and bring them back to perfect health, keep in mind this was after it had been going on for at least 5 days without anyone doing anything about it
the ick parasite dies at 86 degrees, or rather it dies once it comes off the fish and goes back to the bottom of the tank or the decor. A large amount of aquarium salt also helps kill the cysts. Once you notice the white spots gone, keep up with the high temps and salt for at least 3-5 days to ensure that the ick is dead (since ick come off of the fish at a certain point of its life cycle and reattaches a few days later)
I'll try and give you more advice later but heat and salt are the best things, and the aeration is simply so that there is enough oxygen for the fish in the tank while the heat is up there, and I know cardinals can take the heat and like it a little warmer to begin with so 86 would be totally fine

[Bushkill]

Originally Posted by HybridHerp

I had a MASSIVE ick outbreak while I was away to college, and managed to save all of my fish by doing simply 3 things
1. heaters set at 86
2. lots and lots of aeration
3. salt, lots and lots and lots of salt
I managed to save all but 2 fish and bring them back to perfect health, keep in mind this was after it had been going on for at least 5 days without anyone doing anything about it
the ick parasite dies at 86 degrees, or rather it dies once it comes off the fish and goes back to the bottom of the tank or the decor. A large amount of aquarium salt also helps kill the cysts. Once you notice the white spots gone, keep up with the high temps and salt for at least 3-5 days to ensure that the ick is dead (since ick come off of the fish at a certain point of its life cycle and reattaches a few days later)
I'll try and give you more advice later but heat and salt are the best things, and the aeration is simply so that there is enough oxygen for the fish in the tank while the heat is up there, and I know cardinals can take the heat and like it a little warmer to begin with so 86 would be totally fine

All perfectly soumd advice, with one exception: The plants will likely suffer from the added salt. If at all possible, remove the fish and treat them in a separate tank. I would also continue to treat just a bit longer. Thankfully I haven't had to deal with ich for quite some time, but fast-fading memory tells me the life cycle is 7-10 days. Hence some will treat for up to two weeks from last spot.

[livingword26]

Ich does not die at 86 degrees. Raising the temperature is only for speeding up the life cycle. Ich is only killed by the salt in its free swimming phase, which happens after it falls off the fish, drops into the substrate, changes form back into the free swimming phase and re-imerges into the water. This all happens much faster at 86 degrees.

[HybridHerp]

I believe you are right, but either way the heat helps a ton
As far as the plants, mine came out just dandy when I did this, but I only had a sword, ferns and a lace and tiger Lilly
Tbh I'm shocked that the lace came out fine
Not happy but it was fine

[livingword26]

Originally Posted by talontsiawd

years or more).

3. Epson salt and high temps. Obviously I don't want to raise the temp but I could keep the temp where it is and add epson salt.

I just noticed this. Epsom salt is not for ich treatment. Regulare aquarium salt from petco or petsmart will work. Some people say that you can use regular table salt if it has no other additives in it.

4. Add UV sterilizer. I have heard people say that it has cured Ick for them in already affected fish. I know its good about getting it out of the water but I am kind of doubtful for infected fish. I only want to do it if I have to because it is inline and I have to plumb it into my system. Not too hard but if it isn't needed, I don't want to do it. I understand it should not be used while using any medication.

I think a uv sterilizer is a good idea. The ich parasite on an infected fish, basically has armor around it. I am not sure that anything will kill the ich in that state. But the salt and the uv will kill the ich in the free swimming state, before they reinfect the fish. An infected fish has ich coming and going, in different states of life. It will always look the same, but some of the ich are always falling of, and some are re-attatching.

I do think that you can loose some plants during this kind of treatment though.

[Complexity]

Originally Posted by talontsiawd

Does Rid Ich expire? It has no expiration date.

You can call them tomorrow to find out. They have a toll free number.

http://www.novalek.com/phone_hours.htm

[wendyjo]

I was also wondering why you are using epsoms salts? That is typically used as a bath to reduce swelling in a bloated fish, not for ich.

[LS6 Tommy]

Originally Posted by livingword26

Ich does not die at 86 degrees. Raising the temperature is only for speeding up the life cycle. Ich is only killed by the salt in its free swimming phase, which happens after it falls off the fish, drops into the substrate, changes form back into the free swimming phase and re-imerges into the water. This all happens much faster at 86 degrees.

X2!

Tommy