Discus or Angels

[damselfish]

I'm graduating this Saturday, and the problem of a graduation gift has been giving my mother fits. She wanted to get me discus, and we even checked out a local breeder. She got all excited, and I was all "yeah, those are neat." But I'm stymied by two things:

1) I'm lazy.

2) My 75 gallon is currently home to three angelfish.

Let's ignore the "don't mix discus and angels because parasites" thing for the moment, because even were that not true, the angels are little stinkers. While their battles are fun to watch, there is simply no way I'm going to put expensive, shy, scaleless fish in there with my hooligans. So my options are:

1) dump the angelfish and get the discus (seriously, FREE DISCUS are you crazy)

2) keep the angels, they're cool and swim like little starships (1 blue, 1 silver, 1 koi/marble hybrid, nothing fancy but they're rather pretty)

Or even 3) get a few more really cool angelfish. I bounced this option around with my mother by showing her some pinoy and wide-fins, and she likes them enough for the substitution, but my angels are about 2 inches from nose to tail (they don't really hold still while I put the ruler up!) and that's a difficult size to match. I used to have five, but one died and one ruffian was sent to the orphanarium. The fact that I'm left with hooligans tells you just how mean this other angel was. I know part of the aggression is too few angels, but too late now. They're big and hard to match up to what I can buy.

Now, I tried researching things like "should I get angels or discus" and got a lot of articles about NEVER MIXING THEM EVER OR APOCALYPSE WILL HAPPEN and a bunch of videos of them cohabiting peacefully, but never a good run down of either/or.

So, folks: do I take the discus or keep the angels?

Assume I've done the most basic research on discus including water parameters/care, so I'm not really looking at that. I'm not bad at keeping fish, mind: I've got several rams and congo tetras in the tank, so the basic conditions are met for discus and I know I'm capable of keeping "difficult" fish with my slothful ways. But I hear stuff about 50% water changes and EXTREME CLARITY OR THEY WILL SPONTANEOUSLY EXPIRE, which is kind of off-putting. Also I'm running a Cascade canister filter and I'm waffling on getting a second because I've got a lot of particulate in the water-- either the spray bar is pushing particles in a tunnel (which it does, I've watched it happen with leaves) and the intake tube is too far away to get it, or there's enough bypass in the filter that it's spitting out gunk. I know this means my water isn't clear enough for discus (or my standards for water clarity are too high, idk) but I'll probably pop on another filter once I find one whether or not I get the discus.

Mostly I'm concerned with how people like discus versus angels, and whether they really require the kind of work people say they do. A lot of discus keepers say "they're not that hard! Just do all this work!" and I realize that some people have a very different opinion on "work" than I do. I'm 4'11 with noodly arms and change water with buckets. 50% is not gonna be happening every week.

[nvladik]

4) Got for the discus, but, sell the reason's why they can't go into the tank with angels and you need another tank!

[TWA]

Originally Posted by damselfish

1) I'm lazy.



Mostly I'm concerned with how people like discus versus angels, and whether they really require the kind of work people say they do. A lot of discus keepers say "they're not that hard! Just do all this work!" and I realize that some people have a very different opinion on "work" than I do. I'm 4'11 with noodly arms and change water with buckets. 50% is not gonna be happening every week.

Don't get the discus, they'll be ugly within a few months as they'll grow into little stunted footballs. If you've done the research, you know they require high water quality, and not even doing 50% every week (which is still entirely too little) doesn't really work. Assuming you rid yourself of your Angels, you won't be happy if your discus perish from a direct result of you not changing water like they need. All they ask for is stable and clean water, if you can't keep the fish properly, you shouldn't keep the fish. This may seem harsh, but we are keeping animals in glass boxes, the least we can do is give them some quality of life instead of just letting them suffer. (which they do, they visibly become lethargic by the next night if I skip a water change)

I'm severely disappointed in anyone who will argue this with me, as I know I'm right and many people would back me on this.

On a more positive note, I love discus in comparison to Angels, which just don't please me. They're too aggressive for my liking, they don't visually appeal to me, and I feel good actually having something that grows to look a certain way depending on how much I work for it.

Easier method? Buy a python, do daily water changes that way.

[m00se]

Excellent reason to pitch a PVC plumbing project for an auto-water-changer-thingy!

That is all.

[damselfish]

Originally Posted by TWA

Don't get the discus, they'll be ugly within a few months as they'll grow into little stunted footballs. If you've done the research, you know they require high water quality, and not even doing 50% every week (which is still entirely too little) doesn't really work. Assuming you rid yourself of your Angels, you won't be happy if your discus perish from a direct result of you not changing water like they need. All they ask for is stable and clean water, if you can't keep the fish properly, you shouldn't keep the fish. This may seem harsh, but we are keeping animals in glass boxes, the least we can do is give them some quality of life instead of just letting them suffer. (which they do, they visibly become lethargic by the next night if I skip a water change)

I'm severely disappointed in anyone who will argue this with me, as I know I'm right and many people would back me on this.

On a more positive note, I love discus in comparison to Angels, which just don't please me. They're too aggressive for my liking, they don't visually appeal to me, and I feel good actually having something that grows to look a certain way depending on how much I work for it.

Easier method? Buy a python, do daily water changes that way.

If I could figure out how to attach a python to any of the faucets within reach, I'd totally have one by this point! I fantasize about it every time I take the step-ladder out of storage.

And yeah, that's what I was thinking. My water parameters are pretty stable at the moment (about 25% a week, once or twice depending on how often I want to water my plants), but I don't have fish as demanding as discus right now so it's been working out. While I could say "of course I'll step up and do the work!" I don't really know if I would. Because, ultimately, I'm lazy. Maybe I just have a really low bio-load, but I just can't imagine an overnight swing like that in such a big tank.

[damselfish]

Originally Posted by m00se

Excellent reason to pitch a PVC plumbing project for an auto-water-changer-thingy!

That is all.

I'm definitely researching this now, because I'm sick of the buckets!

[kamikazi]

Discus are beautiful fish, but the reward isn't worth the risk in my mind. With a small family to take car of I can not afford to spend $40 dollars on a fish that can be difficult to keep healthy and happy.

So with that in mind I would get more angelfish.

[prototyp3]

I will most likely catch heat for this, but there's a difference in keeping discus and keeping discus to make show class breeders. The fanatics will say you need clear water from the highest Himalayans imported daily, read them bed time stories using a South American accent, etc.

2nd tank is always an option, heh..

[nikonD70s]

lol you can mix discus with angels. i used to keep my discus with altum angels. most of the time articles you read online are just from their experience. im sure u heard how difficult it is to keep discus too right? well....wrong. discus are easy to keep. i treat them like any other fish. all u need is common sense.

reason why people say discus are difficult to keep is they start out with BAD discus to begin with. so when they die they think discus are hard. cuz most of those people buy discus from fish stores that most of the time carry low end stunted cull not so healthy ones. buy them from a good source that has healthy discus then ur already a big step ahead. and chances of running into problem are very slim. unless you just bad at fish keeping.

the only fish that lives up to articles saying they are hard to keep are altum angels.

[zchauvin]

NIKON, see how beautiful those heckels you bought are?? Stick that in a planted tank and change water once a week 50%... See how long they look like that. When your talking 1-500$ per fish its better to take care of the situation to highest extent than do just enough to get by.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[zchauvin]

Originally Posted by prototyp3

I will most likely catch heat for this, but there's a difference in keeping discus and keeping discus to make show class breeders. The fanatics will say you need clear water from the highest Himalayans imported daily, read them bed time stories using a South American accent, etc.

2nd tank is always an option, heh..

The care between a show class breeder and keeping discus is the same. Saying they need water from the himalayas is just you not knowing anything about discus. You can't turn an ugly fish into a pretty one, everything is determined by genetics and it starts when they are young. You won't make an ugly wild discus into a show discus with water conditions no matter how hard you try, but if you eventually breed enough to get the best of the best to pair up then you can select individual fish with the best traits.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

[nikonD70s]

Originally Posted by zchauvin

NIKON, see how beautiful those heckels you bought are?? Stick that in a planted tank and change water once a week 50%... See how long they look like that. When your talking 1-500$ per fish its better to take care of the situation to highest extent than do just enough to get by.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

i would put them in a planted tank if i was into plants again. i used to keep my other domestic discus in a planted tank. water change once a week. for a year. never had a problem. matter of fact, my heckels would look even better in a planted tank. cuz it would make my tank brighter and they wouldnt show there stress bar as much. but since i love amazon biotopes thats how my tank is. and my wilds are in pure tap water...when articles says use ro water lol

you know anything about altums? i used to keep them in a planted tank. they looked amazing in a planted tank then in blackwater amazon biotope.waterchange once a week for years. never had a problem...and i kept them in tap water from the start.

[prototyp3]

Originally Posted by zchauvin

The care between a show class breeder and keeping discus is the same. Saying they need water from the himalayas is just you not knowing anything about discus. You can't turn an ugly fish into a pretty one, everything is determined by genetics and it starts when they are young. You won't make an ugly wild discus into a show discus with water conditions no matter how hard you try, but if you eventually breed enough to get the best of the best to pair up then you can select individual fish with the best traits.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

You missed the point of my post.

[LB79]

Oh, boy, this thread is gonna be a real battleground.

While I believe discus can be kept in planted aquariums with 50% twice weekly waterchanges (I keep them cause the look cool, not to show them or breed them, hence I do not need perfect fish), I think it would be better to go with angelfish. I'd get 5 more. They'll be in a large group, at this size (2-inch body size) they will school, and they'll get along relatively well. What other fish do you have in there? If you could get your hands on some wild angels that would be awesome. They are more predatory, though.

And as to angelfish not being as cool a fish as discus... not true (angels aren't any cooler than discus, either). They each have a set of neat characteristics that the other lacks completely.

[LB79]

Originally Posted by nikonD70s

i would put them in a planted tank if i was into plants again. i used to keep my other domestic discus in a planted tank. water change once a week. for a year. never had a problem. matter of fact, my heckels would look even better in a planted tank. cuz it would make my tank brighter and they wouldnt show there stress bar as much. but since i love amazon biotopes thats how my tank is. and my wilds are in pure tap water...when articles says use ro water lol

you know anything about altums? i used to keep them in a planted tank. they looked amazing in a planted tank then in blackwater amazon biotope.waterchange once a week for years. never had a problem...and i kept them in tap water from the start.

Rock on, man! Altums rule.